I will try it next game I play, probably use it for Italy, since they need the Navy the most.
How is the balance with the new Alpha 2 changes? Please give your view.
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Good thinking, now we are gettin somewhere, man.
US ditch the Central NO and Mexico NO.
New US NO’s:-
US get 5 IPC NO when Gibraltar strait and suez canal is controlled by the Allies.
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US get 5 IPC NO if no german sub is present in the Atlantic.
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UK get the same NO’s as USA. Easy to remember and to keep track on.
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USSR get 5 IPC NO with sz 125, Archangelsk and no Allied units in Russia. This represent the Lend/Lease, but is hard to get, so the Brits send fighters in every game. Russia need one more Lend/Lease NO:
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USSR get 5 IPC NO when the Allies control Persia, and no Allied units in Russia. Historically half the Lend/Lease stuff went through Persia, so this is a strategically spot.
Also the Axis should get a 5 IPC NO for control of Persia. This is for the oil. One NO for Persia only is better than the current with 2 IPC for Northwest Persia + 2 for Caucasus + 2 for Iraq etc etc. Simple is better.
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It’s + 5 for caucusus.
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So pretty much make the US have heaps of smaller IPC value NOs instaed of the 10 IPC NOs. This way if the US wanted its full value it would have to seriously balance its offensive to get them all, and be everywhere at once. Could there be an NO for them in Russia or India, or maybe if the Allies have the oil nations Iraq, Persia etc the US get a bonus as well but they have to hold all of them not just one.
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Have one US NO that is worth 10 IPCs for controlling all original territories then the other 5 IPC NOs up to the value of 30 IPCs or whatever, can be spread around the globe.Lets build on this.Be positive.
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Have one US NO that is worth 10 IPCs for controlling all original territories
Nobody should get a NO just for control of their own home territory, that is redundant
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The idea of spreading around the NO’s for America to give incentive to balance its’ forces is a good one. The details of the NO’s are up for debate, but the basic idea is sound.
Remember it took America at least 6 months go on the offensive in North Africa and the South Pacific. It took a good bit longer for America to become absolutely dominant in the Atlantic (no more German subs) or the Pacific. The delay in America capturing the NO’s should match this historical build up (somewhat).
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@Cmdr:
@Cmdr:
Does America really need another NO? America’s incentive in the Atlantic should be to prevent the loss of UK. I’m uncertain an additional NO is necessary. I would do without.
We are talking about moving an NO, not adding a new one.
Yes. I deem it an unnecessary NO. It should be removed, not moved. America can do with fewer NO.
The only problem with this is that America would actually need the money, if they played “honestly” that is, if they invested on both sides of the board. If they invest on one board only, then yes, they should have the 10 IPC NO removed and the Mexican NO made solely Alaska + Aleutians (so Japan can snipe it.)
I expect USA to invest in only one board. Doing otherwise is inefficient use of material. USA fights to win on one board and fights delaying actions on the other board.
Yes, the Mexico NO must die. I mean seriously, Mexico? Really?
I like the Alaska / Aleutians NO. It provides a historical reason to fight there.
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I think USA should get a 5 IPC NO when Gibraltar strait and Suez canal is controlled by the Allied. This represent the benefit from open shipping lanes and international trade.
Also UK should get 5 IPC NO for controlling Gibraltar strait and Suez canal, because if they dont, the convoys need to go around the tip of South AFrica, and that is twice the distance. Just imagine all the fuel.
I disagree with the USA NO. USA already has incentive to not let UK fall. USA does not need another NO here.
The UK NO works
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A lot of effort has gone into the USA NO’s to provide Pacific battles and consequences.
The global game is big and long and I have not played enough with Alpha 2 to notice if the USA player can ignore Europe without consequence on a regular basis with various German strategies. Having a different USA NO for the European side can compensate for it if there is an unbalanced situation. We will see. -
@mantlefan:
Have one US NO that is worth 10 IPCs for controlling all original territories
Nobody should get a NO just for control of their own home territory, that is redundant
And… Why is it redundant? If it is redundant, why is that bad?
What does an NO represent, exactly? What do IPCs represent, exactly?
Anyways, lets assume although it’s far from proven) that the game is unbalanced.
What is wrong with this change?
Add the following clause onto the 10 IPC US NO:
If USA declares war on an Axis power before an axis power has captured London or a North American territory, or before Germany has declared war on the USA, or before Japan has declared war on UK, ANZAC, or USA, USA does not collect this NO.It’s redundant because players initially own their own territories.
It’s bad because it is more complicated than simply increasing the value of the initial territories.
NOs are a McGuffin to increase income. Because NO are a line item in the rulebook instead of a map item they are more complicated. For that reason there should be as few NO as possible.
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A lot of effort has gone into the USA NO’s to provide Pacific battles and consequences.
The global game is big and long and I have not played enough with Alpha 2 to notice if the USA player can ignore Europe without consequence on a regular basis with various German strategies. Having a different USA NO for the European side can compensate for it if there is an unbalanced situation. We will see.Granted, but I highly doubt they wanted to to be exclusively Pacific battles. If they did, they SERIOUSLY dropped the ball by giving America enough money for two sides of the board but wanting it all spent on one side!
I wouldn’t futz with England, Australia, Germany, Italy or Russian NOs.
The FIC NO could be made permanent unless Japan invades (to counter the insane American income levels.)
OR
The American NO can be left half for London being Free, Half for Gibraltar being Free. (Take the 10 IPC one from the Continental United States. No one is going to invade there anyway.) -
An N.O. for holding your home lands…… sounds like the U.S.A. The best thing about N.O.'s is when you can take them away from your opponent Hawaii,Philippines,Aleutian,wake,midway,guam, soloman. or you could give some to Japan like 10 for the main island 5 for Okinowa and 5 for Iwo Jima PREPOSTEROUS…KEEP IT THE WAY IT IS (who would object to a new game)
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It was just an idea guy. Obviously the creators wanted the US to have 30 plus IPCs when they went to war. Having 10 of them locked to your territories requires you to think about defense and offence. Having heaps of smaller NOs around the globe then requires you to balance your force. I would prefer this than forcing players to spend so much on this side of the board and so much on this side as this means decisions have already been made on how you play your game. Too many restrictions means no fun. I like this Gibraltor NO as it makes sense. Think of some more Global NOs. I even think having the UK income split between the 2 boards restricts you and takes away some of the challenge to keeping the balance of forces even, if you get my drift. I havnt played tested that scenario yet but someone might have. These are just ideas not set in stone but if we can come up with some good ones and tweak them we may have something to work with.
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The idea of spreading around the NO’s for America to give incentive to balance its’ forces is a good one. The details of the NO’s are up for debate, but the basic idea is sound.
Remember it took America at least 6 months go on the offensive in North Africa and the South Pacific. It took a good bit longer for America to become absolutely dominant in the Atlantic (no more German subs) or the Pacific. The delay in America capturing the NO’s should match this historical build up (somewhat).
Agreed, even if some NOs required the ALLIES to hold the territories and America comes and reinforces to hold the territories for the NO?? After all it is a team game.
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30 IPC in NOs implies to me that America needs to be active on both hemispheres, not on one only. With a potential of 80-100 IPC a round, it seems only logical to conclude the game testers split America’s build in every game in which they tested for data, otherwise, they would have seen the grossly disproportionate strategic situation in the Pacific.
What seems the better course, since it is clear to anyone who wasn’t physically present at the time the game was being designed that, America needs to have some of it’s financial power moved to the Atlantic side of the board and thus, either surrender that income or go defend it.
Logical choices include:
- London, since if England fell the American people would have rioted in the streets burning FDR in effigy most likely.
- Gibraltar, since it was the key to locking the Italians into the Mediterranean Sea, it made it very dangerous for Germany to go repair and resupply U-Boats in the Mediterranean Sea and it allowed for easier trade.
- Paris, (see London)
And no, I do not believe anyone is espousing the creation of another NO in addition to what America has, only to move 5 or 10 IPC worth of NOs to the Atlantic board and remove them from the Pacific board. Personally, I would prefer to see 10 of them moved over leaving 20 on the Pacific board should be enough to “encourage Pacific campaigns and naval battles” as someone above mentioned. Hell, even with the 10 moved over, America may still go “all in” for a Pacific campaign.
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@Cmdr:
What seems the better course, since it is clear to anyone who wasn’t physically present at the time the game was being designed that, America needs to have some of it’s financial power moved to the Atlantic side of the board and thus, either surrender that income or go defend it.
Logical choices include:
- London, since if England fell the American people would have rioted in the streets burning FDR in effigy most likely.
- Gibraltar, since it was the key to locking the Italians into the Mediterranean Sea, it made it very dangerous for Germany to go repair and resupply U-Boats in the Mediterranean Sea and it allowed for easier trade.
- Paris, (see London)
London - I dont think there would have been riots, at the time the US wasnt even in the war. Heck if London is captured the US declares war, i dont think tying an NO to London is at all realistic.
Gibralter - That might be ok
Paris - When the allies reclaim Paris the game is pretty much over so it would be as pointless as the russian NO for Berlin.
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I disagree. The people of the United States would have seen the cause as lost once London fell. (We Ukranians of Russian ancestry were already preparing for war anyway, so we wouldn’t have cared so much what happened to you angloids.) It would have, most likely, been a much stronger impact than the bombing of some abandoned ships in some puny harbor in the middle of the Pacific ocean. (it was not yet a state!)
Further, strategically speaking (both in game and in history) London is and was of much more importance than Mexico City was and is.
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Another idea:
Give Japan 2x 3 Hit Battleships to represent the two they had in WWII. They can be denoted (on the board) with a control marker under them and in battlemap with one of the tiles next to them. 3 Hit BBs should, further, be auto repaired to only 1 hit applied at the start of Japan’s purchase units phase regardless of proximity to a friendly naval base and fully repaired if in proximity to a friendly naval base.
Example: Japan takes 2 hits to the Yamamoto (it floats because it is a 3 hit battleship.) The battleship is located next to Guam at the time it is damaged. On Japan’s next turn (provided no one hits the battleship a 3rd time before then) the ship can now absorb two hits before sinking. Should the ship have been located in SZ 6, instead, it would then be able to absorb another 3 hits before sinking.
Japan may have up to 2 Super Battleships (3 hit battleships) originally, +1 if Japan controls Calcutta and +1 if Japan controls Sydney for a maximum of 4 at any time on the board.
Super Battleships cost 24 IPC.
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@Cmdr:
I disagree. The people of the United States would have seen the cause as lost once London fell. (We Ukranians of Russian ancestry were already preparing for war anyway, so we wouldn’t have cared so much what happened to you angloids.) It would have, most likely, been a much stronger impact than the bombing of some abandoned ships in some puny harbor in the middle of the Pacific ocean. (it was not yet a state!)
I would retract the comment about abandoned ships. It’s not funny nor true. Especially for people who still have family members aboard one of those “abandoned” ships.
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@Cmdr:
Another idea:
Give Japan 2x 3 Hit Battleships to represent the two they had in WWII. They can be denoted (on the board) with a control marker under them and in battlemap with one of the tiles next to them. 3 Hit BBs should, further, be auto repaired to only 1 hit applied at the start of Japan’s purchase units phase regardless of proximity to a friendly naval base and fully repaired if in proximity to a friendly naval base.
Example: Japan takes 2 hits to the Yamamoto (it floats because it is a 3 hit battleship.) The battleship is located next to Guam at the time it is damaged. On Japan’s next turn (provided no one hits the battleship a 3rd time before then) the ship can now absorb two hits before sinking. Should the ship have been located in SZ 6, instead, it would then be able to absorb another 3 hits before sinking.
Japan may have up to 2 Super Battleships (3 hit battleships) originally, +1 if Japan controls Calcutta and +1 if Japan controls Sydney for a maximum of 4 at any time on the board.
Super Battleships cost 24 IPC.
Seems too complex
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