That makes sense. I wasn’t aware of that. Thanks for responding! :+1:
Changes still needed to the game, IMHO
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Ok it seems people are pretty turbed when it comes to messing with the NOs- in that case a proposed alternative is to place land units on capitals which would be the safest. I propose this:
Add 4inf, 1art to Japan-Tokyo
Add 2inf, 2art to SItaly-Rome
Add 1inf, 1art to Germany- Berlin -
First, the idea is to give America an incentive not to let England, Africa and Europe fall to Germany unopposed. Moving the Objective to these territories, effectively, does that. But since it is an incentive, America does not HAVE to move to stop it.
Second, since the NO would only start on Round 4 (generally) it gives the Axis time to stop it.
Third, if America invests in the Atlantic to keep the NO, it loses equipment against Japan - YAY we are helping Japan, the only country in this game that needs help!
Fourth, if America decides not to invest in the Atlantic for the NO, it loses 5 IPC a round it can use against Japan - YAY we are helping Japan, the only country in this game that needs help!
Fifth, if America does invest in the Atlantic only, then Japan will win the game - YAY we effectively split the American build and made them just like every other country, able to put only 50 IPC on any given side of the board at a time!
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Id prefer italy not in the war round 1 and UK cant attack italy R1
Doesn’t make sense historically not to have Italy at war already lol… Italy and Germany are allied and warring UK/France 1940 at the start of the game.
Having 2 German planes on Southern Italy gives them a boon and a fighting chance R1 IMO.
It would make some sense historically.
And even with the german planes, the UK can do crushing damage to the italin fleet with non too serious losses. Also, a british invasion of torbruk R1 effectively stops the italian armies from doing anything significant in africa for the forseeable future. -
Oh yes, I quite handily agree with you, a British attack on Tobruk (1 fighter from Gibraltar if W. France was not taken in addition) is a very good idea! I thought that was standard, one of the many reasons I feel Russia capable in holding back the Germanic/Italian forces because Italy loses 67% of her transports, 67% of their shore bombardments and virtually all their attacking forces in N. Africa before Italy can go!
An attack on Ethiopia from W. India isn’t a bad idea either, for the record.
Also, I love it when Germany puts planes out to help the Italian fleet! That means less planes to hit London with, perhaps delaying or cancelling Sea Lion.
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That’s why I plan on Sealion G3 and land 2 aircraft in SItaly and 2-3 aircraft in Tobruk. Sure most of my German air is away for G2, but I built all ships G1 so I have a decent threat on UKsz’s, and now thankfully I’ve saved the Italian army and fleet.
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Yeah, putting planes in Southern Italy has almost become a “must” move at our games. Germany cannot afford to have the Italians routed early, Sealion or no.
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That’s why I plan on Sealion G3 and land 2 aircraft in SItaly and 2-3 aircraft in Tobruk. Sure most of my German air is away for G2, but I built all ships G1 so I have a decent threat on UKsz’s, and now thankfully I’ve saved the Italian army and fleet.
Great, so England gets the Italian fleet AND a sizable chunk of German airforce! Awesome! wink
Two or three less planes for Germany are two or three less planes that can attack England!
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It’s a lot easier for German planes to reinforce the Med than it is for either British or Italian navies.
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This happens in most of our games as well. As Germany I do not mind loosing planes early to help Italy get a step ahead. As the axis I want uk to attack the Italian navy
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Germany has enough planes that they can make Tobruk safe, and those planes can then return to Europe G2 for the attack on UK. Considering the large boost it gives to Italy(keep their fleet and their starting african troops) that it is an ‘oh duh’ move. Try it, you’ll like the outcome as Italy.
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Germany has enough planes that they can make Tobruk safe, and those planes can then return to Europe G2 for the attack on UK. Considering the large boost it gives to Italy(keep their fleet and their starting african troops) that it is an ‘oh duh’ move. Try it, you’ll like the outcome as Italy.
Churchill says thanks for sending less airforce to take out the british navy :-D
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@Cmdr:
First, the idea is to give America an incentive not to let England, Africa and Europe fall to Germany unopposed. Moving the Objective to these territories, effectively, does that. But since it is an incentive, America does not HAVE to move to stop it.
Second, since the NO would only start on Round 4 (generally) it gives the Axis time to stop it.
Third, if America invests in the Atlantic to keep the NO, it loses equipment against Japan - YAY we are helping Japan, the only country in this game that needs help!
Fourth, if America decides not to invest in the Atlantic for the NO, it loses 5 IPC a round it can use against Japan - YAY we are helping Japan, the only country in this game that needs help!
Fifth, if America does invest in the Atlantic only, then Japan will win the game - YAY we effectively split the American build and made them just like every other country, able to put only 50 IPC on any given side of the board at a time!
This makes good sense. If you come up with a good NO for this then you would not have to add ANY units to the setup. What if the Mexico NO was changed to a liberation of France NO that US would have to go get. It would do everything we need it to do for US
I would start here and if that still didn’t work than I work talk about adding a few units to Japan.Adding units to Germany and Italy (except maybe on the capitals) really makes things messy. I would rather not have to do that.
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I do not mind the idea of switching from the Alaskan NO which probably should stay to the Mexican NO which was probably designed only to give America yet another NO (only valid game reason I can think of.)
Instead of the United States controlling Mexico, Southern Mexico, Central America (Panama Canal) and the West Indies make it so that the Allies control Morocco, Algeria, Tunis and the West Indies.
America could literally control all of those territories as well, and it gives the United States a reason (outside of just denying Italy the N. Africa NO) to take and hold Africa.
Not to mention, when in all the nine levels of hell has anyone seen America lose the West Indies or Mexico in Alpha 2? I rarely, if ever, saw it in 1940, and (except for AARe) virtually never saw it there and as for classic, you mean someone invaded the West Indies? WHY? lol. Hence why I think it was added to the game only to give America an NO and thus, moving it shouldn’t be overly detrimental to the game balance things, it just makes it a little more interesting for America in the Atlantic.
As for German’s losing planes:
1) They probably do not lose any around the British Isles anyway. Those attacks are pretty safe (except for the U-Boat commanders.)
2) If I can get 3 of them in the Adriatic Sea, awesome! It’s my best shot at them and I can trade British ships that will die anyway, for German planes that could really screw up the Sea Lion balance making it easier for Germany (and thus Germany loses less ground troops!)
3) I’m really hoping my AA Gun will shoot at least one German plane down during Sea Lion.The name of the game is kill the Luftwaffe! The less planes Germany has, the stronger Russia’s position. The stronger Russia’s position, the more leeway the Allies have in getting Japan back into their little bottle. The more leeway the Allies have to get Japan bottled up, the more sure they can be of success.
Can Germany replace the planes lost? OF COURSE! Just keep in mind, 3 replacement fighters = 10 Infantry. In the case of SZ 97, to replace the 2 fighters and tactical bomber you lose 9 Infantry and 1 Artillery worth of IPC. What has England lost? The carrier, cruiser and destroyer that were not getting out anyway. (Unless you escape through the Suez, but then you leave Italy with a Battleship, Cruiser and 2 Transports and we really do not want to do that!)
If they lose another 1 or 2 over London, we’ve reduced the Germans from 4 Fighters, 5 Tactical Bombers, 1 Strategic Bomber to 2 Fighters, 2 Tactical Bombers, 1 Strategic Bomber.
That’s a loss of 2 Fighters, 3 Tactical Bombers or 52 IPC worth of equipment. Sure, I lost England. Yay, who cares. But maybe I also forced Germany to decide between taking England with a tank or retreating with a plane? eh. Not to mention, 5 Aircraft vs 3 Aircraft is more managable for Russia!
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Jen, why do u keep assuming germany will scramble in the adriatic?
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ALos germ starts with 5 fighters in alpha 2, 1 in norway, 1 in holand, 2 in wgerm and 1 in hungary
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all the german airforce in s italy does is deters the UK from an attack there, it by no means worth defending the seazones with, its to just make it look tough. And I do support something to limit a UK1 attack on italian stuff,
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all the german airforce in s italy does is deters the UK from an attack there, it by no means worth defending the seazones with, its to just make it look tough. And I do support something to limit a UK1 attack on italian stuff,
Because 101 times out of every 100 attacks, Germany scrambles to inflict more damage to the British navy and all it does is lose some German aircraft. It’s the only reason I attack SZ 97 with England, to sink German planes. (Yes, I realized that 101 scrambles out of 100 attacks is mathematically incorrect, I am illustrating a point, not writing a mathematical proof!)
If Germany does not scramble, then I just remain with more units and now Germany has to help Italy sink the 2 Fighters, undamaged Carrier, Cruiser and Destroyer in SZ 97. I’m good with that, I’m also good with Italy taking 3 CRD and not being able to leave boats in SZ 95 too.
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Technically in 100 attacks you could only scramble 100 times, not 101.
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well germany either must have either A a grand master plan that involves sacrificing some air by scrambling, or B should not scramble period
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@Cmdr:
(Yes, I realized that 101 scrambles out of 100 attacks is mathematically incorrect, I am illustrating a point, not writing a mathematical proof!)
Technically in 100 attacks you could only scramble 100 times, not 101.
Holy hell, I knew you were just arguing to argue! You really are not reading what I type, are you? Post RIGHT OVER YOURS TOO! It’s not like you had to read 7 more posts and could have some legit-leg to stand on that you “forgot” I said that!
well germany either must have either A a grand master plan that involves sacrificing some air by scrambling, or B should not scramble period
Personally, that’s the route I am leaning towards. Put the fighters in S. Italy so that England has to attack only SZ 97, not both sea zones, but don’t scramble. The option to scramble is there if England does not come in strong enough.
Too bad a lot of players do not do this, most seem to always scramble, and in that case, YUMMY! Killing German fighters have always been the #1 priority of the Allies in these games (as Russian fighters were #1 for the Axis).
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