Why are standard openers unpopular in league and tournament play?

[Cow]

I guess so. I do prefer to attack egypt if allies don’t put a bid on it, I won’t do SZ 12 and opt for 2 sub + fighter vs BB so i can get my bomber on egy.

i like my bid inf egypt tank belo… or tank egypt and art EU depending on my bid size.I’ll probably take allies at low as 7. not a big fan of 6 and under. i want some threat to go with my ruskies.

[Funcioneta]

@Cow:

you’re wrong jenn. there are only 2-4 ways to use your axis bid in revised. art tank for africa (because transport bid is full of fail)

3 inf europe to hold karelia round 1.

you can modify those bid setups to give japan +1  so he can start with IC and 2 trans buy.
~

I must disagree. In Revised, 1 japanese trannie bid at Carolines sz can kill any ideas about ignoring Japan … you could say that is a whole new game. There are also some other interesting twists if you bid 1 sub to z8 or even the italian trannie

I must agree with Jen in this subject: some players stick to the “standard” too much. Thinking out of the box is good, as I learned in AA50-42 with the Baltic fleet

And the India IC works, and very well, unless that the bid goes to Japan or is too high

[cts17]

Cow, you seem to be saying that any attempts against Japan is futile and full of baloney. You base this on the premise that Japan starts out with more, and can always outproduce America.

Japan only starts with 17 IPC, and is making about 40-45 IPC to spend on the 2nd turn. America starts with 40 IPC, with 48 IPC to spend 2nd turn. While it is true that thereafter Japan usually starts making more, the Allies can work in conjunction to prevent this.

Believe it or not, an Indian IC is possible, but only with a KJF strategy. All it takes is a 6 IPC sub build in SZ35 to make it happen. 4 Russian infantry coupled with a 3 armour/1 bomber purchase in Caucasus ensures that the factory remains intact. A Bry stack can threaten Manchuria, the Russian bomber and the British sub can kill J1 attempts on the money isles and british homeland planes can land in India B2.

The United States can compliment this with a US1 build of 1 CV, 2 TP, 2 SS. US2 can see another CV+DD+SS. B2 can include 2 CV+1 fig and will land the starting fighters, while the Australian DD can meet up with it. This places 2 substantial fleets at either end of the Pacific that can both go on the offensive against the money islands as early as turn 3. Japan never rises above 50 IPC, usually peaks at about 47 IPC on J3, before declining.

This obviously isn’t flawless. The European frontier is left very vulnerable. Yet by US3 or US4, both Africa and the Pacific are secure. A very conservative Russia can, and will, be defended by the returning Commonwealth air force after the Indian crisis (J3). By US4, Japan is crippled, and focus can return back to the European front.

[souL]

art/arm bry can cause a domino effect to KJF.  Sub 35 means without the 2 bmb buy from ger you can bmb cau R1 and attempt to transport pick.

[Jennifer]

I believe Cow is attempting to say that it is too difficult to conquer Tokyo, Japan and that one could expect that the Germans will control Moscow before the Americans control Tokyo in most games.  To that, I agree.  The only problem with that assertion is: “Why do I need Tokyo?”

In a “kill Japan first game” I find it is more about sequestering the Japanese on Japan (Tokyo) and less about taking Tokyo Japan.  You should be able to win with Victory Cities as well, without actually taking Tokyo.

Meanwhile, you’re Japan.  You have to magically take out China, take India, handle the remnants of the far eastern contingent of the Russian Army as well as now you have American carriers, destroyers and transports scratching at your soft under belly.  Perhaps England puts a complex in India, in conjunction with the American attack?  Now you have attacks from over land, attacks at the sea (from a nation earning as much or more than you), the Chinese to deal with, you can pretty much give up the NO for India/Australia now, Russians you have to over-whelm to get into their meaty districts, etc, etc, etc…if you don’t know how to handle it, you’re going to get screwed without lube.  If you do, maybe you can buy time for the Germans and Italians to win?

Meanwhile, keep in mind that England + Russia > Germany + Italy.  Especially if England stacked Egypt and prevented it from falling, and focused on sinking and keeping the Italian navy sunk.  Russia can turtle for a bit, then when England is ready to help (round 3, maybe 2 if you’re lucky) they can push forward with the old Infantry Push Mechanic with Britians landing and moving into newly taken territories to keep the Germans from effective counter attack.

Yes, that’s a “perfect” game.  I understand.  But it is also a realistic game.

[souL]

+11 should probably always either be dd 12/inf egy or dd2 /inf egy… but if you can agree on a bomberless allied bid and a pac/egy-only bid… 12’s a magic number for balance.  inf/art/arm bry is nasty, inf/art/arm ind is good.  4 inf aus and 4 inf ind allow for IC to be built.  4 inf yun keeps the flying tigers around.  sub 35/2 inf yun, sub 35/2 inf egy, 4 inf bur, ftr ind, ftr aus, and of course ftr bry starts the japanese short a trn.

[Jennifer]

I’m doing fine with 8, personally.

[Gargantua]

I don’t know… did you look at your tournament game Jenn?  I wouldn’t call that “doing fine”

[Jennifer]

@Gargantua:

I don’t know… did you look at your tournament game Jenn?  I wouldn’t call that “doing fine”

Eh, barring the insanity of JWW’s inability to hit a bomber with an AA Gun, America’s inability to defend it’s fleet when it clearly has superior odds (defined as sinking what should have been left with her bombers and losing only one bomber)…I don’t think it is overly bad.

America + Russia > Japan
England = Germany + Italy income (last round Germany + Italy edged ahead of England.  Factors in a continued 15-20 IPC damage to Germany each round, he’s not hitting bombers anyway.)

Yes, the Japanese fleet is in the Med…and yes, the Japanese fleet in the Pacific should have been gone, but otherwise, it’s not THAT bad.