2011 Tournament discussion (AA50-41)

[Cow]

Why play boats and ocean? when you can get a capitol battle that much quicker?

[Cow]

I prefer the aa50 map to any other map. simply because it’s high octane.

Classic is all about infantry stacks and slugfests.

revised is fun too, I do like buying mostly tanks with russia till japan shows up and butting heads with germany.  Playing germany is not so fun when uk shuffles guys through archangel… you got to spot that shit early and bring the fight to caucasus and go all in like chop chop otherwise the game goes to a stalemate. yeah screw that… friggen usa shuffling 8 boats worth of guys through africa like a dickwad turtling the game. yeah fuck that. germany just needs caucasus and that’s it.

aa50 is nice, because they made the map bigger, but still take about the same amount of time to resolve a game. 1942 can end if russia’s round 1 attacks fail… yeah I don’t take russia with less than a 9 bid for 1942. It’s not that bad though… just don’t lose guys in ukraine to italy.  hold caucasus/russia. UK just has to get in 8 guys on karelia/norway/finland area first to stabilize russia.

usa has to handle africa. do a little pacific. then go full tilt europe when the time comes.

[Cow]

I always thought aa50 and revised was pretty balanced. revised favored allies slightly and aa50 axis slightly.

[Cow]

1942 is kind of dicey, because I love doing bomber vs destroyer/transport with russia… makes sz 12 rough as germany’s bomber or 1 fighter has to go to russia’s bomber… then sz 12 either has to have figs or 2 subs.

if not sub vs dd 2 tran and sub vs cruiser and trans… is brutal sometimes. 1942 is so silly sometimes.  all bid has to go to russia in my opinion. russia can do fairly well just hitting belo, EU, and ukraine. if germany rolls exceptional defense it’s so rough for russia. :( most of the time it is fine… but that 1/5 games is rough.

[Cow]

also func, the best player doesn’t always win. even zhukov loses here and there especially when he butts heads with a cow in a dice game. I see 40% odds for france and I take it… mmm that’s what a cow does. shorty got them jeans and them furs.

[Zhukov44]

We are way off topic here but oh well…

This discussion makes me think about why I like KGF in aa50.  I think part of it because I’ve played alot of live Allies on TripleA (like Cow) and its fun.  In Revised, I didn’t like Allies much, and I played mainly Axis, because there was no good short-game strategy, outside of hard KJF, which rarely works against a strong player.  Against a good player, playing Allies was usually a 10-12 rounder and since I normally played on GTO (where there was no save) I never had time for that.

With AA50 I feel the opposite way; I love playing Allies.  There is an excellent short-game strategy and its fun as hell to execute.  I love advancing that monster Russia mid-game and I love making the D-Day landing and seeing Axis morale plummet.  Beating down Germany never seems to get old, though no doubt eventually it will get old.

Don’t get me wrong, the longer competitive global AA50 games are also really fun, but they are for either PBEM or multiple live sessions.

I can understand how especially PBEM players worry about KGF being dominant and how to fix it–I think it partially comes from KGF being so dominant in Revised and how that got boring.  But I think KGF doesn’t get its due as a really fun strat to execute, if not quite as fun for the Axis player to defend against.

But I also think the book isn’t totally closed on KJF/global in 41.  Yamamoto had a KJF strategy for low luck games that was so good that only elite players could stop him.  Yoshi also has a really good one.  There’s always the possibility that new bid strategies will open up new KJF tactics.  We aren’t anywhere close to the sort of uniformity of strategy that you get with competitive Revised.

[souL]

AA50 has the best map of any game.  It’s basically perfectly sized and the NOs are apportioned well for sharp, tactically fluid games.

I have always appreciated Funcioneta’s idea of the “asian theatre only” bid idea.  At +9 it’s tough and you can get some interesting placements.  art/arm bry, sub 35/inf yun, sub 35/inf ind, 3 inf yun, I’ve even kicked around 3 inf bur, dd 35 (although extremely wasteful in the short run), and 3 inf phi.

I like KJF and although mine needs work v. the elite players (see the first of my 2 game set in the league v. Zhuk), I think +9 is a good number to get a good KJF going.

[Cow]

burma and east indies are an illegal bid. you have no units there, you have to place where you have stuff.

otherwise a russian sub vs a destroyer and 2 transports… you win that and you fuck japan over hardcore. I don’t believe in bid placement wherever you want.

[souL]

Who said anything about East Indies or Borneo?  Burma you have 1 inf.  You need bid placement in a territory you have units.  I think I favor art/arm bry… it can start a nice domino effect against the japanese.

[dutchmand]

Any talk of AA50 being broken is absolute nonsense.  It is by far the most superior map of any Axis & Allies variant. Sure it’s not perfect, but nominate a map and scenerio that is?

I am an Axis guy; bring on that KGF, if the dice are not unkind, I will stop it.  But even so, with that, and all my experience, if you look at my Tourny game, Bold seems extremely confident that he will be the victor. This demonstrates that in no way do people feel that there is a lack of hope to win with the Allies. With a bid placement, between 6 and 11, the game becomes very balanced.

So, if the OOB set-up placed another 3 units to the Allies somewhere, wouldn’t that actually take away some of the fun and intrigue that the game has right now?  Each game can be slightly different depending on the bid size and placement.

I would like to see China be a touch stronger, but if that is the only negative of the entire elaborate scheme that is AA50, I can more than live with it.  I retired from Axis & Allies for more than a decade because none of the maps stimulated the kind of strategery and agency that I wanted from the game, even though I loved the basics of the gameplay.  AA50 pulled me right out of it.  I use to play a lot of other games, now it’s just Axis & Allies.

[Cow]

sub sz 35. art and armor bury are pretty solid. I have nothing against that. art tank in bury is more or less of a gamble. 40% manchuria odds roughly with 3% draw? not too bad. I’ve done that before. it’s okay.

KJF and pacific play requires heavy luck on the allies side. where as europe isn’t nearly as intense… omg my attack failed I lost whatever the AA gun hit and some men.  where as in the boats and ocean… if you lose something you lose big. Japan has the odds, japan also chooses the battles if he plays well. also you see what is placed on west usa you can prepare for it on your turn before it moves out.

also there is not enough ground forces to really contain japan. so you got manchuria… china lives an extra round. great. meanwhile germany/italy are going to own africa/europe and eventually russia. if you do full on KJF yeah I don’t care as long as I get china done and make my bonus. that’s e z enough. germany + italy can handle moscow then that’s it. italy can do stuff like take brazil to ease up things for japan… or hell cross the channel.

germany after taking moscow… matter of time before uk goes.

[Cow]

I play OOB every now and then. you meet a guy, he says he’s played revised but not aa50 and wants to give it  try, meh basically allies getting zero bid = axis gets a free mistake.

KGF is easier and has a higher success rate. you know it is true. Plus the games end by round 9. you either lost moscow and failed to take berlin or you took berlin and lost moscow or you took berlin and moscow held. 2 of the 3 scenarios are favorable for allies.

the only time you might play out past round 9 or 10 is if both sides failed or if japan got moscow and uk or usa got berlin.  usually japan doesn’t have enough to beat usa and uk. he needs enough leftover men to A) dominate africa and outproduce allies in income B) take back and hold germany or italy… I’ve yet to see that C) have west usa.

I’ve done C and A to someone as axis. I’ve had C happen to me once, which is bs. 8 inf 2 tank and a fighter losing to 2 bombards and 6 guys. whatever, I did it to someone too for the heck of it. 10-25% is 10-25%… it happens.

[Cow]

also dutchman, boldfresh missed so many opportunities. don’t mention his KGF to me, ever again.

[boldfresh]

@Cow:

also dutchman, boldfresh missed so many opportunities. don’t mention his KGF to me, ever again.

i like your style Cow  :wink:

[Cow]

you have 1000+ tuv game… 500+ for each side. I hate games like that. because they can go on 14 round plus. in real life 10 hour game? in triplea 5-7hour game? most games resolve in 2-3 depending on how long people think about what they are doing. real life games 3-6 hours usual.

it’s like you couldn’t find a battle.

[Cow]

gi_joe over cow.  cow couldn’t hit against british forces all game with germany. lost sz 2 battle with sub fig bomber (total miss) and sz12 with sub 2 fighter (total miss)  on g1 and lost germany on a 77% defense on uk 3. :| which is pretty sad but that’s ok. even if i put a couple a couple more guys the way he rolled and the way i rolled… jesus.

[Gargantua]

PWNED!

You must be all talk, to get knocked out in the first round against a total noob!

See you next year Cow.

[Cow]

lol shit happens. like the time i lost 1 carrier 2 fighters to a single fighter… and that bastard flew away… and i choose carrier as my first casualty… lool but i won that game, because boats and oceans never matters.

[gamerman01]

:-)
I thought GI Joe’s men all came by sea….

[gamerman01]

So Cow, doesn’t that make you COBRA?