Quick historical question about WWII

[Omega]

I have to give a lecture tomorrow and want to use some historical data. Unfortunately, I have no real formation in history and can only rely on my high school knowledge and on Wikipedia.

So here’s my question :D

When was the was WWII won? I’m not interested in the date 1945, but rather when did Germany lost all hope of victory? One could have no chance of winning and yet still continue to fight… A friend suggested that it happened after the failure of Stalingrad, because that opened the way for Russia’s counterattack and because Germany pretty much lost all their military advantage. Any other opinions?

This question is followed by a second, perhaps more important, but linked with the first one :

How many cities did the Allied bombed after the Germany lost all chances of victory? I don’t really want an exhaustive list (unless you know it!!), but an estimate would be really appreciated

thank you for making my lecture more accurate!!

Robert

[calvinhobbesliker]

In my opinion, Germany lost all hope of victory when it invaded Poland(since it allowed Britain and France to enter the war, which should have easily defeated Germany if they invaded it in 1939). Many may say he lost hope of victory when he declared war on the US(since there was no way Germany could beat the UK, USSR, and the US combined).

I’m pretty sure they bombed every major city in Germany.

[Imperious Leader]

I have to give a lecture tomorrow and want to use some historical data. Unfortunately, I have no real formation in history

Last minute huh?? LMFAO.

So here’s my question Cheesy

When was the was WWII won?

HUH?

It ended in europe on May 8 1945 and pacific Sept 1 1945. it was won at Stalingrad by Russia in early 1943. UK and USA were just sideshows to Europe, while The Soviets were a sideshow in the Pacific.

I’m not interested in the date 1945, but rather when did Germany lost all hope of victory? One could have no chance of winning and yet still continue to fight… A friend suggested that it happened after the failure of Stalingrad, because that opened the way for Russia’s counterattack and because Germany pretty much lost all their military advantage. Any other opinions?

Militarily it was Kursk because it removed any hope of restoring any stability in the eastern front, but in terms of momentum and morale Stalingrad broke the back because Germany could not replace those loses. However, the point where Germany last held all the cards in terms of making the war hers to lose… you might consider Mid October 1941 as the last point where mistakes by Germany would place the wars result into how the Soviets fought, rather than what Germany did. Before that point Germany could do a number of things that would have resulted in victory regardless of what the allies could have done. After October both time and material and operational momentum ran out of the hourglass.

This question is followed by a second, perhaps more important, but linked with the first one :

How many cities did the Allied bombed after the Germany lost all chances of victory? I don’t really want an exhaustive list (unless you know it!!), but an estimate would be really appreciated

You will have to look online on this. 1943 and 44 were the big years of the allied bombing campaign.

[Omega]

Kind of last minute indeed!

The historical date I’m asking are not necessary. I’m making a lecture on theory of just war and WWII serves me as an example ; i could live without, but thought it would be interesting to show some numbers to back up my words!

but thank you for the answers!

Robert

[Razor]

According to Lothar Rendulic, the war was lost approximately from spring of 1942 on.

http://allworldwars.com/A-Reflection-on-the-Causes-of-the-German-Defeat-by-Rendulic.html

[ABWorsham4]

@Omega:

Kind of last minute indeed!

The historical date I’m asking are not necessary. I’m making a lecture on theory of just war and WWII serves me as an example ; i could live without, but thought it would be interesting to show some numbers to back up my words!

but thank you for the answers!

Robert

1942 war was lost by Germany.

[Dylan the Canadian]

How’d you do on the report?

[Gargantua]

Betraying the Soviets, and invaded Russia BEFORE crushing Churchill in England - was mistake # 1 - and lost the war.

This was compounded by the fact that the dumb-as$ japs attacked the Americans.

[Razor]

11 decembre 1941, that date Germany lost all hope of victory.

• The attack on Moscow had failed, and they started to retreat.

• Hitler declared war on USA.

• Hitler fired his staff, and made himself the supreme military leader.

From 11 decembre 1941 it went downhill for Germany.

[Fishmoto37]

@Gargantua:

Betraying the Soviets, and invaded Russia BEFORE crushing Churchill in England - was mistake # 1 - and lost the war.

This was compounded by the fact that the dumb-as$ japs attacked the Americans.

The war was as good as lost on June 22 1941 when Germany launched operation Barbarossa. Barbarossa was scheduled for earlier that spring but Germany had to delay it several weeks to bail out Italy in Greece. Otherwise the Germans would have lost the war sooner. Now some may claim that if Germany had not declared war on the U.S. after Pearl Harbor that they could have defeated the Soviets. I think that Franklin and Winston would have found a way to help the Soviets somehow. So Germany would have probably declared war on the U.S. anyway. Never underestimate the amount of lend-lease that was sent to the U.S.S.R. The Soviets were able to concentrate on building things like planes,tanks,guns and ammunition because other needs were supplied by the allies. Can you all imagine how long it would take to win Europe back with Germany not at war with the Soviets. The U.S. and Britian could not do it without the BOMB. The more years that went by with Germany in control of Europe who could imagine what kind of weapons they could have developed.

[Razor]

I think Germany lost WWII in 1938 when Hitler fired Hjalmar Schact as president of the Reichsbank and let drug addict Herman Goering be head of the German economy. He put on the brakes so the German warmaking potencial would never be fully exploitet. Hitler also fired Blomberg and Fritsch, and took command of the military force himself, through puppet Keitel. That turned out to be a bad idea for sure. Germany obviously lost the war in 1938.

But the main reason Hitler and the nazies lost the war, was because they obeyed a racist ideology that told them to kill all the other people in the world, except the 70 000 000 pure Arians. To make it even worse, Germany had a limited Arian  population, no oil, no iron ores, not even remotely producing enough food, and was surrendered by enemies. How could they possibly succeed ?

Germany could only win the war if Hitler was not born.

[Razor]

How Germany could win WWII.

Lets pretent Hitler was never born and the Weimar was in power. They were social-democrates and already had a pact with USSR since 1920, so they too could have split Poland. They could have stoped after occuping Danzig and the Polish occupied German territory, and the Western Allies would have no casus belli, or reason to declare war. The Weimar would propably not be racist, so they would not get the jews against them. It would be a limited war.

If UK and France still declared war, then with Blomberg and Fritsch in command, and no Hitler, the war in the west would be likely to have another outcome. Guderian would propably capture 330 000 british pows in Dunkirk, and Churchill would be sacked, and Halifax would prey for peace. If not, then Germany would go full into the Med and liberate Gibraltar, Malta, Egypt, Iraq and Persia from the British imperialists and supressors, and get free oil from Middle East through the Berlin-Bagdhad railway, that was build in 1918.

If Weimar attacked Sovjet Union, they would be liberators. The people in the East that was supressed by Stalin would rise and join Weimar in a community of interests. Weimar would get the resources they needed by trade, not by killing the population or turn them into slaves, like Hitler did.

[Gargantua]

He should have just waited for nukes.

[Army of Northern Virginia]

Lets pretent Hitler was never born and the Weimar was in power.

As soon as you do that all events which follow change, so you can no longer use the same history for the hypothesis, since all of the events that followed were dependent on Hitler. No Hitler = no 1939 invasion of Poland. Other events maybe, but not the same. For all we know if Hitler hadn’t been born, Germany may have been invaded by Russia and the cold war may have been between a German victor and the US.

Hypothesis and theorizing aside: Germany was defeated in North Africa and Stalingrad at the end of 1942 / the start of 1943. At that point any chance of an Axis victory was lost (the Japanese were also experiencing reversals of fortune in the Pacific). The causes for the loss may have started earlier, but that’s when the problems created earlier became physical fact.