Submarines in a Convoy Sea Zone

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Krieghund:

Technically, neither of those situations requires a declaration of war by the passive player.  The powers involved are at war by virtue of the acting player’s declaration.

So a DOW isn’t always needed to be at war

[Krieghund]

One is needed by one party involved, but not by all parties.  If you declare war on me, we’re at war with each other.

[WILD BILL]

Krieg, I understand now the meaning behind the political rules through these discussions (I really do appreciated your commitment and patients). I understand that when an enemy power declares war on you, that it is a mutual DOW between you and that power only (exception UK/Anz). It is up to you (if you want to) to declare war on the other powers in the enemy alliance on your turn. Further more if the enemy triggers an act of war w/you, through DOW and attacking one of your allies, that you can declare war on your turn (was no direct attack on you) in case of the USA, or other powers with such triggers. I think there may need to be a clarification in the FAQ however to aid other players for the good of the game. At least spell out that being directly attacked is a mutual DOW, and when to declare war w/other triggers.

Thanks again for your attention to this.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@WILD:

Further more if the enemy triggers an act of war w/you, through attacking one of your allies, that you must also declare war on your turn (was no direct attack on you) in case of the USA, or other powers with such triggers.

This is false. The US doesn’t have to declare war on germany even if Japan DOWd them. if Japan makes an unprovoked attack on UK, US doesn’t have to declare war on anyone. Hell, it doesn’t even have to declare war at the end of turn 3.

[WILD BILL]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@WILD:

Further more if the enemy triggers an act of war w/you, through attacking one of your allies, that you must also declare war on your turn (was no direct attack on you) in case of the USA, or other powers with such triggers.

This is false. The US doesn’t have to declare war on germany even if Japan DOWd them. if Japan makes an unprovoked attack on UK, US doesn’t have to declare war on anyone. Hell, it doesn’t even have to declare war at the end of turn 3.

I did not say your next turn. If you want to go to war with the others in the enemy alliance, you do it on your turn. It could be 2 turns from now, but it would still be your turn, unless they attack you before then (then there’s an auto DOW w/that power).

I changed the must to can just for you (LOL)

[calvinhobbesliker]

@WILD:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@WILD:

Further more if the enemy triggers an act of war w/you, through attacking one of your allies, that you must also declare war on your turn (was no direct attack on you) in case of the USA, or other powers with such triggers.

This is false. The US doesn’t have to declare war on germany even if Japan DOWd them. if Japan makes an unprovoked attack on UK, US doesn’t have to declare war on anyone. Hell, it doesn’t even have to declare war at the end of turn 3.

I did not say your next turn. If you want to go to war with the others in the enemy alliance, you do it on your turn. It could be 2 turns from now, but it would still be your turn, unless they attack you before then (then there’s an auto DOW w/that power).

I changed the must to can just for you (LOL)

Good. Technically, the US could never be at war for the entire game if none of the axis declare war on it

[WILD BILL]

I have another question concerning China (just making sure I have it right). UK moves a unit into China. Rules say that Jap considers this an act of war against it. Jap wasn’t directly attacked though, so it would have to declare war on its own turn when it comes around (if it wants to). If there are Jap ships in UK/Anz convoys at the time they would not be able to raid them right (until after Jap gives its official DOW in the future). So for this turn (when UK moved into China), the UK/Anz would not need to worry about the convoy zones.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@WILD:

I have another question concerning China (just making sure I have it right). UK moves a unit into China. Rules say that Jap considers this an act of war against it. Jap wasn’t directly attacked though, so it would have to declare war on its own turn when it comes around (if it wants to). If there are Jap ships in UK/Anz convoys at the time they would not be able to raid them right (until after Jap gives its official DOW in the future). So for this turn (when UK moved into China), the UK/Anz would not need to worry about the convoy zones.

I think the rule is “Japan considers movement into China as a DOW against it.” Thus, you’d have to declare war on Japan to move into China

[Krieghund]

@WILD:

I think there may need to be a clarification in the FAQ however to aid other players for the good of the game. At least spell out that being directly attacked is a mutual DOW, and when to declare war w/other triggers.

I believe that I agree.  How’s this:

Q.  If another power declares war on my power, am I at war with that power immediately, or do I have to declare war on my turn?
A.  Your power is at war immediately, but only with the power that declared war on it.  You must wait until your turn to make any declarations of war on other powers that were enabled by that declaration.  For example, if Germany declares war on the United States, the United States is immediately at war with Germany, but it must wait until its turn to declare war on Italy.

[Krieghund]

@WILD:

I have another question concerning China (just making sure I have it right). UK moves a unit into China. Rules say that Jap considers this an act of war against it. Jap wasn’t directly attacked though, so it would have to declare war on its own turn when it comes around (if it wants to). If there are Jap ships in UK/Anz convoys at the time they would not be able to raid them right (until after Jap gives its official DOW in the future). So for this turn (when UK moved into China), the UK/Anz would not need to worry about the convoy zones.

Statements about “acts of war” in the rules are just “flavor” text.  If you look at UK’s political rules, you’ll see that it’s not allowed to move units into China without first declaring war on Japan.

[WILD BILL]

@Krieghund:

@WILD:

I think there may need to be a clarification in the FAQ however to aid other players for the good of the game. At least spell out that being directly attacked is a mutual DOW, and when to declare war w/other triggers.

I believe that I agree.  How’s this:

Q.  If another power declares war on my power, am I at war with that power immediately, or do I have to declare war on my turn?
A.  Your power is at war immediately, but only with the power that declared war on it.  You must wait until your turn to make any declarations of war on other powers that were enabled by that declaration.  For example, if Germany declares war on the United States, the United States is immediately at war with Germany, but it must wait until its turn to declare war on Italy.

I think that clears it up quite nicely

[Krieghund]

Excellent.  Thanks for your help, guys!

[WILD BILL]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@WILD:

I have another question concerning China (just making sure I have it right). UK moves a unit into China. Rules say that Jap considers this an act of war against it. Jap wasn’t directly attacked though, so it would have to declare war on its own turn when it comes around (if it wants to). If there are Jap ships in UK/Anz convoys at the time they would not be able to raid them right (until after Jap gives its official DOW in the future). So for this turn (when UK moved into China), the UK/Anz would not need to worry about the convoy zones.

I think the rule is “Japan considers movement into China as a DOW against it.” Thus, you’d have to declare war on Japan to move into China

@Krieghund:

Statements about “acts of war” in the rules are just “flavor” text.  If you look at UK’s political rules, you’ll see that it’s not allowed to move units into China without first declaring war on Japan.

Yea I knew UK first had to do a DOW on Japan. I was thinking that because there was no direct attack on Japan, it would have to wait to reciprocate the DOW. The good news is that your statement for the FAQ also clears this up.

[rocknroll]

well…
i have a question about subs and convoi raids. special case: mediterranian sea seazone 97.
i am playing the allied forces. i have an american sub there, germany occupied yugoslavia, italy greece.

i am convinced that my sub does affect ALL territories adjectant to that seazone mentioned above. (which means, n. italy, s.italy, yugoslavia, albania, greece and therefore taking 9 ipcs away from italy and 2 from germany)

what do you guys think? is this true or false?

rock`n roll

[calvinhobbesliker]

You take away 2 ipcs from Italy and 2 from Germany.

[Gargantua]

What about fighters on an Aircraft Carrier?

They are technically part of your navy.

Do they count as -1?

Aircraft certainly could shoot convoys into the bottom of the sea…

[calvinhobbesliker]

Aircraft do no raid convoys.

[Krieghund]

Planes on carriers are just assumed to be part of the carriers’ raiding capability, so they aren’t counted separately.

[rocknroll]

another question(s):

let´s assume there two german subs in sz 109 and a german one in sz 119. how many ipcs germany could take uk away? how many scottland? (since sz 109 and 119 are neighbouring scottland it can be up to 4 ipcs, right? or is there a limit set?)

or is the convoy of sz 109 only connected to uk and the one of sz 119 to scottland?

rock`n roll

[calvinhobbesliker]

6 ipcs are taken from the UK