Russia's National Objective Met by Declaring War on Japan?

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Clyde85:

I think that the rule is fine just the way it is. If anyting its more of a deterrent for Japan not to attack the soviets, which is in both countries best intrest.

Russia then declares war on Japan on turn 1 to get the NO

[Tavenier]

Yep. And Russia will take over Korea and threaten Manchuria.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Tavenier:

Yep. And Russia will take over Korea and threaten Manchuria.

Korea will be convoy raided by the Z6 fleet. No point in wasting inf to take it.

[Funcioneta]

No, it’s not pointless. You attack Korea with 2 infs. If success, Japan has to send at least 1 inf there (potentially losing 1 fig), thus slowing Japan a bit (and aircraft attacking soviets will not be attacking chinamen). If failure, all you have to do is retreat with 1 inf to Amur: that inf will stop blitzs, and I don’t think that losing 2 infs at Siberia is going to lose the day for USSR … it’s the huge airforce of Japan that can erase the full 18 inf stack with one blow … also and the lack of aa guns at Siberia and China

Anyway it’s silly that Japan can convoy raid a land-locked country as USSR  :|

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Funcioneta:

No, it’s not pointless. You attack Korea with 2 infs. If success, Japan has to send at least 1 inf there (potentially losing 1 fig), thus slowing Japan a bit (and aircraft attacking soviets will not be attacking chinamen). If failure, all you have to do is retreat with 1 inf to Amur: that inf will stop blitzs, and I don’t think that losing 2 infs at Siberia is going to lose the day for USSR … it’s the huge airforce of Japan that can erase the full 18 inf stack with one blow … also and the lack of aa guns at Siberia and China

Anyway it’s silly that Japan can convoy raid a land-locked country as USSR  :|

Why? It doesn’t take that many planes to kill the weak China

[Funcioneta]

Well, any fighter that is not fighting China helps. You should send a couple of mech infs from Moscow to China each turn as well until Germany DOWs USSR

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Funcioneta:

Well, any fighter that is not fighting China helps. You should send a couple of mech infs from Moscow to China each turn as well until Germany DOWs USSR

Japan just needs to kill 4 inf on turn 1. 1 less ftr won’t make much of a difference

[Clyde85]

Why in gods name would Russia want to attack Japan? Serioulsy, Russia is going to have its hands full dealing with Germany why would it want to have Japan hitting its back door?
I mean Russia has no offensive units in the area, while Japan has it full freakin army and Navy all of one Space away. Also, its nigh impossible for Russia to get offensive units out there while once again Japans main industry is, one space away.

I dont think it is possible for the Russians to even hold a Japanese tt long enough to put an IC in it as any Japanese player with a brain will send everything its has to counter-attack and kill the Russians, and take it back. 18 infantry is great to defend, but will run out pretty quick if put on the offensive and left unsupported

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Clyde85:

Why in gods name would Russia want to attack Japan? Serioulsy, Russia is going to have its hands full dealing with Germany why would it want to have Japan hitting its back door?
I mean Russia has no offensive units in the area, while Japan has it full freakin army and Navy all of one Space away. Also, its nigh impossible for Russia to get offensive units out there while once again Japans main industry is, one space away.

I dont think it is possible for the Russians to even hold a Japanese tt long enough to put an IC in it as any Japanese player with a brain will send everything its has to counter-attack and kill the Russians, and take it back. 18 infantry is great to defend, but will run out pretty quick if put on the offensive and left unsupported

Russia declares war so it can take Persia and Iraq

[Clyde85]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Russia declares war so it can take Persia and Iraq

Which dose what excatly? How dose that shift the gorss imbalance of forces between the Russians and the Japanese? How dose it make it so that Russian forces out in the far east will last longer?

Its great that you can quote me, but could you try answering the questions that were asked instead giving a cryptic answer which just raises more questions?

Like how can the soviets attack Iraq when the rules say they can make no offensive against the European axis (and before you tell me, Iam well aware the Iraq is in the Middle east, but since its on the AAEuro40 board, im grouping it in with them)

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Clyde85:

@calvinhobbesliker:

Russia declares war so it can take Persia and Iraq

Which dose what excatly? How dose that shift the gorss imbalance of forces between the Russians and the Japanese? How dose it make it so that Russian forces out in the far east will last longer?

Its great that you can quote me, but could you try answering the questions that were asked instead giving a cryptic answer which just raises more questions?

Like how can the soviets attack Iraq when the rules say they can make no offensive against the European axis (and before you tell me, Iam well aware the Iraq is in the Middle east, but since its on the AAEuro40 board, im grouping it in with them)

Russia can invade any neutral once its at war. Persia can give it ipc’s and infantry, and killing Iraq prevents Italy from getting those inf and is another 2 ipcs. The 18 inf can just retreat to Buryatia.

[Clyde85]

Russia can go to war with Japan without it affecting it relations with the other axis, just because Japan and the Soviets are at war dosnt mean it can attack the Euro axis. Iraq is on the Euro board, making it part of the Euro axis in my view, where Russia is forbidden from attacking.

Now your talking about the Soviets retreating, so your saying that the Soviets should declare war against japan, not attack them, and stack everything in Buryatia? This sounds like a terrible long term stratgey, I highly doubt that a 5ipc NO and the extra 2 infantry and 2 ipcs is going to make a difference, espically when you basically invite the Japanese to take 5ipcs worth of tt from you for free.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Every transport japan wastes dropping troops in siberia is a turn the dutch east indies, india, or singapore holds out.

It does hurt russia by redistrubuting its infantry to the east. It pushes japan back a square or two. I think of each round of territory which has to be captured as one more turn america has to get involved.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Clyde85:

Russia can go to war with Japan without it affecting it relations with the other axis, just because Japan and the Soviets are at war dosnt mean it can attack the Euro axis. Iraq is on the Euro board, making it part of the Euro axis in my view, where Russia is forbidden from attacking.

Now your talking about the Soviets retreating, so your saying that the Soviets should declare war against japan, not attack them, and stack everything in Buryatia? This sounds like a terrible long term stratgey, I highly doubt that a 5ipc NO and the extra 2 infantry and 2 ipcs is going to make a difference, espically when you basically invite the Japanese to take 5ipcs worth of tt from you for free.

Iraq is not part of axis. Krieg has confirmed that Russia can attack it when at war with Japan. However, the NO only applies if at war with Germany or Italy

[Funcioneta]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Iraq is not part of axis. Krieg has confirmed that Russia can attack it when at war with Japan. However, the NO only applies if at war with Germany or Italy

The latter should be included in an official FAQ or many will play with the NO working also at war with just Japan. By the way, a non-agression pact official rule would be welcomed in the FAQ, because I cannot see the hidden penalties to prevent Japan and USSR DOWing each other round 1 (however, I can see the many incentives to DOW round 1  :roll: )

[Clyde85]

Which still, dose not explain you grand stratgey about why, and how, Russia would go about fighting this war with Japan from Turn 1.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Clyde85:

Which still, dose not explain you grand stratgey about why, and how, Russia would go about fighting this war with Japan from Turn 1.

Russis won’t fight Japan. It will be at war with Japan in name only

[Clyde85]

@calvinhobbesliker:

Russis won’t fight Japan. It will be at war with Japan in name only

That is the worst idea I have ever heard.
So, Russia delcares war on Japan, moves into a defensive position, and starts raking in the NO cash and moves into Persia and attacks Iraq. That has got to be the most explotive thing I have ever heard. What an abhorrent gamey tactic, you actually play like this?  :|

Im assuming you move the one guy from the caus. to Perisa and back him up with the tank and mech. from Stalingrad to attack Iraq? The way we’ve been playing is that Russia cant make any offensive moves on the European Board, period. Attack Iraq, a pro axis nation, might prevoke the Germans which paranoid old uncle Joe wouldnt want to do.

I really am shocked, I would have thought people would have more respect for the game and the history and play according to the heart of the rules and not just the letter  :|

[Funcioneta]

The problem is that the best move for USSR anyway is moving to a defensive position with the siberians, and that Japan is going to attack Amur anyway J1 with minimal forces just because there is nothing to stop them doing so, so the best approach for USSR is DOWing Japan first round, taking Persia and sending some units to China. You can be gamey (I agree that is a exploit caused by a bugged ruleset) or you can attack Korea with 2-3 infs (I think that this attack is decent) and not being gamey

Without a rule, Japan and USSR start the game at war. It’s like saying that France and Italy don’t start at war (as it was before Paris fallen) but you don’t make penalties or restrictions for the attacker

I strongly think that a non-agression rule is really needed. It was not so difficult to do: my suggestion is that the first that DOWs the other must pay 20 IPCs to the bank to represent logistic changes, spies and sneaky diplomatic tactics to ensure a surprise attack. I cannot see USSR paying 20 IPCs just to take Persia, and I’m pretty sure that Japan would prefer wait to smash China before to pay the cash

[Corbeau Blanc]

@Krieghund:

It was intended that this NO only apply if the USSR is at war with a European Axis power.  This will be in the FAQ.

What part of Krieg’s statement was’nt clear  :?