I agree with Simon’s conclusion that Moscow falls G6. No need for Sea lion after UK1 DOW on Japan. This game is going to end very badly for the Allies unless the Axis player is very weak. Play some tougher competition!
Death of the KJF?
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Has the KJF had its last hurrah?
All allies strategies i have read have talked about a KGF or more accurately the KIF. All talks have been a 80 IPC U.S attacks turtle Germany’s weak underbelly, Italy. Of course people say Germany can preform Sealion and won’t become a turtle but based on all the after combat reports we have heard the Allies eliminate Italy and win soon after. The Germans can only pull Sealion of with good luck from the dice gods and this slows down the eventual American invasion of Italy. Japan’s only chance of stopping this is a successful pearl harbour which allows The UK’s pacific theatre to become strong and cause Japan to worry about mainland Asia and a threat of bombing raids on Japan which will tie up some of its IPCs which means it can’t focus on a Attack on mainland America. Which truth be told will probably not be succesful and will only take 1 or 2 rounds of spending to protect San Fran from a possible Japanese attack.
So the question I ask you is with a easy KIF from the 80 IPC U.S why would the allies worry about attempting a KJF?
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Um, i can think of a few reasons not to ignore Japan.
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-14 US IPCs a turn from convoy raiding
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Egypt falling to Japan around turn 5
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Stalingrad falling to Japan around the same time
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20+ Jap planes in Europe around the same time
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10+ Japan units from India pouring into Europe
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20-30 Japan units landing in Alaska each turn.
Japan won’t be easy to use in a relevant way at first, but give everyone some time and i’m sure they will become scary.
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Um, i can think of a few reasons not to ignore Japan.
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-14 US IPCs a turn from convoy raiding
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Egypt falling to Japan around turn 5
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Stalingrad falling to Japan around the same time
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20+ Jap planes in Europe around the same time
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10+ Japan units from India pouring into Europe
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20-30 Japan units landing in Alaska each turn.
Japan won’t be easy to use in a relevant way at first, but give everyone some time and i’m sure they will become scary.
Bugoo’s a damn good player, and I don’t see any of his points as being improbable. I think those are the types of things you’d be dealing with if you ignored Japan.
However, you’re asking if KJF’s will go extinct, not whether KEF (Europe) is a good idea or not. Those are two different things.
Well, consider:
What if Japan does not attack Allies not named Soviet Union or China on turn 1? And what if the UK and ANZAC make effective attacks on Japan, possibly even sinking fleet and a lot of airplanes, left available by Japan to bait an attack? (So the USA can’t enter the war until turn 4) Anyway, I’d say that when Japan forgoes a J1 attack, it may be more feasible for the USA to bear down on Japan and take her out of the game (not necessarily take the home island). Of course, this is feasible if the UK and USSR are handling Germany and Italy sufficiently. Then I still see KJF happening sometimes.With as many possible scenarios as there are in 1940, what with all the political situations and options of the Axis, I wouldn’t rule much of anything out. That includes a hard concentration on Japan.
Keep in mind the USA went KGF first in real life because the free world (democracies of Western Civilization) were in danger of extinction. The only foreseeable threat of Japan to the free world, was that they were working together with common enemies with Germany and Italy, and that they could possibly invade the US (highly unlikely). Jeez, a lot of Japanese high command didn’t even want to attack Pearl Harbor, but they did it because they thought if they didn’t, there’d be no way they could ever keep their Pacific gains, because the USA would come get 'em (they were right). Of course, several in command didn’t want to attack the USA in the hopes that USA would just leave them alone.
Anyway, USA would have went KJF IRL if the UK (and ultimately France) wasn’t on the brink of extinction. IRL USA had 2 very high priorities. #1, preserve the free world, and #2, preserve the safety of the homeland.
USA agreed to go after Germany and Italy until they were taken care of, and then concentrate on Japan after that, because apparently they weren’t as worried about priority #2. Because the threat level of Japan actually invading was assessed at LOW. Probability of Germany dominating all of Europe (and then attacking USA in different ways, including a potential nuclear bomb) - higher.
So my point is, I think it will make sense in various situations to go deal with Japan with >50 or >70% of USA income turn after turn (I think it would be fair to call that KJF).
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what is KJF?
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KJF=Kill Japan First
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i see a strong japan, that US won’t be able to stop
but US would atleast do effort to hold both sydney and honolulu.
I count that as a 2 frontwar,
so KGF and KJF are dead, it’s a world war. -
80 IPCs each round against Europe is wet dreams for Ignore-Japan fanboys, but it’s not going to happen. Japan will not let that happen. I’ll repeat: Japan is, in game terms, nearer to America than to Moscow. I’d even say that is much nearer to America than to Moscow
Any Japan player that chooses JTDTM as reply to Ignore Japan deserves lose
Other thing is a true KGF. That would mean send, say 60% of USA’s income to Europe and 40% of income to Pacific. That could work, because that 40% of income sent to the Pacific will problably slow Japan enough, prevent convoy raids on America, etc. But never try ignore Japan, because a wise rival will punish that
Reversely, it’s also possible go KJF and send 60% to Pacific, 40 % to Europe … but again, you cannot ignore West Axis with USA because the combo of Germany+Italy will be probably more powerful than USSR+England … and even worst, because USSR and Japan start the game at war (despite that Larry may say)
You must fight the whole board, face it
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I will second that, if the US can atleast distract Japan where they need to spend money countering the US fleet buildup, and ANZAC stays secure, then Japan’s options become fairly limited in the rest of the world.
I think the best plan will be an air buildup at Pearl with some ships, around 30-40 IPCs a turn, along with an operation torch buildup to begin a shuck into africa and threaten Italy, will be the typical US strategy in the future.
I just worry about how long Russia can last against a German player who forgoes sea lion and uses Italy to help with can openers and defending the beaches. I don’t see Russia lasting very long in that scenario.
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Um, i can think of a few reasons not to ignore Japan.
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-14 US IPCs a turn from convoy raiding
-
Egypt falling to Japan around turn 5
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Stalingrad falling to Japan around the same time
-
20+ Jap planes in Europe around the same time
-
10+ Japan units from India pouring into Europe
-
20-30 Japan units landing in Alaska each turn.
Japan won’t be easy to use in a relevant way at first, but give everyone some time and i’m sure they will become scary.
#1 I believe could be easily stop in a turn or two with a fleet build
#2 and 3 The Japanese should need to worry about doing this as the European Axis should do it.
#4 This could happen and I agree its dangerous but UK/USSR should be able to deal with most of this
#5 and 6 I struggle to see both of these happening at the same time because it would really on a minimum 90 IPC on land units per turn. That would be thirty inf not including the 10 transports and other ships that would protect the transports and trannie replacements from raids by ANZAC and UK with remaining ships.Also if Japan was in a 100 IPC place the UK and ANZACs would have to fall and Japan but before they could complete this I believe Italy would having been killed.
Bugoo’s a damn good player, and I don’t see any of his points as being improbable. I think those are the types of things you’d be dealing with if you ignored Japan.
However, you’re asking if KJF’s will go extinct, not whether KEF (Europe) is a good idea or not. Those are two different things.
Well, consider:
What if Japan does not attack Allies not named Soviet Union or China on turn 1? And what if the UK and ANZAC make effective attacks on Japan, possibly even sinking fleet and a lot of airplanes, left available by Japan to bait an attack? (So the USA can’t enter the war until turn 4) Anyway, I’d say that when Japan forgoes a J1 attack, it may be more feasible for the USA to bear down on Japan and take her out of the game (not necessarily take the home island). Of course, this is feasible if the UK and USSR are handling Germany and Italy sufficiently. Then I still see KJF happening sometimes.I agree with Japan under control of a good commander that they could be a challenge but to become a major threat it would rely on ANZAC and UK under control of average to below average player.
I will second that, if the US can atleast distract Japan where they need to spend money countering the US fleet buildup, and ANZAC stays secure, then Japan’s options become fairly limited in the rest of the world.
I think the best plan will be an air buildup at Pearl with some ships, around 30-40 IPCs a turn, along with an operation torch buildup to begin a shuck into africa and threaten Italy, will be the typical US strategy in the future.
I just worry about how long Russia can last against a German player who forgoes sea lion and uses Italy to help with can openers and defending the beaches. I don’t see Russia lasting very long in that scenario.
But if Germany/Italy do that i see that UK and US will preform a Italy attack as you say or go for an early D-Day strategy.
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I am 1/2 way through a game where I am ignoring Japan totally with America. Just a game though to urge the Japanese to do SOMETHING. They’ve taken Hawaii painlessly. Next turn they should probably blockade my west coast taking about 10IPC.
My first answer will be to build up to about 5 air units there and use a couple from the mainland to make invading Alaska or my west coast improbable. Turn after I think I have to build 4 AC for 64 points, maybe a couple destroyers right in the middle of the Imperial Navy. My instant Navy will have cost me 120 points or so and consist of 8 fighters, 4 two hit air craft carriers, and 2 Destroyers.
My slow to be made point is, Japan costs the my US at least two turns of going Europe total that way.
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I think if US does not get hit with Pearl Harbor than it can be a good idea to build up at Hawaii. It forces Japan to leave a major part of its navy behind because with the navy base in Hawaii they can hit sea zone six in one turn. Also if Japan is not careful with a large defense force they could lose Tokyo. The US can buy 7 bombers on the last turn before an attack and as long as they still hold a coastal Russian terriority they can hit sea zone six to help destroy a defense navy with the air base in San Fran.
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I just posted this on another thread. What if the Allies go KFJ right from the beginning of the game?
On R1 Russia declares war on Japan moves its 6 inf from Buryatia to take Korea and sends its planes/armor to the Far East. The US moves all its units from Eastern/Central US to Hawaii/Western US and spends all 52 IPCs on the Pacific then Japan will have a long hill to climb.
It will have to deal with a reinforced US fleet, with the Russians/Chinese pressuring from the north and China plus the UK/ANZAC, while trying to capture the DEI and defend SZ6.Of course it all depends on how the Axis will respond to this threat but from round 3 onwards the US can start sending units to the UK/Europe/Africa to try to contain Germany/Italy.
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