i beleive, im NOT sure, but i think that you get to pick whether tacs or smbs die, and btw, escorts can get picked as causualties only AFTER Smbs i think. ill check in my rulebook, just wait
alpha 2 reads: “escorts may be taken as casualties only after all bombers are eliminated”
and theres no answer as to if you can choose the bomber that dies, id wait for kreig
Oops. Thanks for the correction on the first part. :oops:
The attacker chooses the casualties inflicted by interceptors.
thanks for clearing that up :D i was confused as well
Question: The Axis have a Major IC with 10 damage, the allies capture it, reducing it to a Minor IC, does it still have 10 damage?
i would assume, since the maximum amount of damage theminor IC can have is 6,thats all that would transfer. itd be like if you smashed an apple with a slegehammer, then tried to smash it more……
i would assume, since the maximum amount of damage theminor IC can have is 6,thats all that would transfer. itd be like if you smashed an apple with a slegehammer, then tried to smash it more……
Right. It’s reduced to 6 damage.
@Emperor:
Question: The Axis have a Major IC with 10 damage, the allies capture it, reducing it to a Minor IC, does it still have 10 damage?
That is interesting, its half damaged, so there are 4 choices.
1-Either it has 10 as they are damage markers and have not been removed by paying for them
2-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged, round up to 2?
3-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged round down to 1?
4-Since the rules state that a minor factory can have no more then 6, the other 4 are dropped.
4 is most likely(in my opinion), as it is a good compromise: it follows the minor factory rule, and the allies still save 4 damage dollars. Can’t wait to see the official verdict. Really good question.
1 makes sense from a strictly technical aspect, it did receive 10 damage markers earlier and payment is the only way to remove them. The minor conversion has no effect on damage markers or it would discuss the effect. The minor damage cap rule only refers to the max damage it can receive from all current and future attacks. If no money is spent on repairs; technically the damage would remain.
It seems possible that if it was recaptured and converted back to a major, it would still have 10 markers, since no one paid to remove them.
Edit: checking the Alpha 2 rules, the last sentence under both paragraphs regarding minors and majors reads: “,after that they are no longer assigned” Assigned could indicate that existing ones may continue to exist as no new ones can be added. It could just have read that no more than 6 or 20 are possible. Which would clear the issue. Or it could say that a minor factory can never have more than 6. It simply says stop assigning, and does not say there is a maximum. It is implied but not stated. This assumes this rule supersedes the book.
@Emperor:
Question: The Axis have a Major IC with 10 damage, the allies capture it, reducing it to a Minor IC, does it still have 10 damage?
That is interesting, its half damaged, so there are 4 choices.
1-Either it has 10 as they are damage markers and have not been removed by paying for them
2-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged, round up to 2?
3-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged round down to 1?
4-Since the rules state that a minor factory can have no more then 6, the other 4 are dropped.
4 is most likely(in my opinion), as it is a good compromise: it follows the minor factory rule, and the allies still save 4 damage dollars. Can’t wait to see the official verdict. Really good question.
1 makes sense from a strictly technical aspect, it did receive 10 damage markers earlier and payment is the only way to remove them. The minor conversion has no effect on damage markers or it would discuss the effect. The minor damage cap rule only refers to the max damage it can receive from all current and future attacks. If no money is spent on repairs; technically the damage would remain.
It seems possible that if it was recaptured and converted back to a major, it would still have 10 markers, since no one paid to remove them.
Edit: checking the Alpha 2 rules, the last sentence under both paragraphs regarding minors and majors reads: “,after that they are no longer assigned” Assigned could indicate that existing ones may continue to exist as no new ones can be added. It could just have read that no more than 6 or 20 are possible. Which would clear the issue. Or it could say that a minor factory can never have more than 6. It simply says stop assigning, and does not say there is a maximum. It is implied but not stated. This assumes this rule supersedes the book.
All excellent points and right in line with my reasoning as well. I can’t find anything that supports reducing damage. Another consideration, The axis would have had to pay 10 to repair it to full capacity, should the allies get to only pay 6 for a factory they bombed in the first place. Also, the allies risked their bombers to inflict the original damage, how do we justify just waving away that damage? An interesting set of circumstances. I too look forward to the official ruling.
Then lets look at it from the opposite perspective, a minor IC has 6 damage and is upgraded to a Major IC, if we follow the logic of Option 4 the damage should be upgraded as well. After all the change in damage was do to a change in the factory, not Repair or SBR.
James, this isn’t up for discussion or analysis. Krieghund has stated unequivocally, that the damage on the minor would be 6 in this example. So, it’s your #4.
EM, the official ruling (I know you love to point out that I’m not official, which I’m not) has already been posted on this thread, I am 99% certain.
James, this isn’t up for discussion or analysis. Krieghund has stated unequivocally, that the damage on the minor would be 6 in this example. So, it’s your #4.
EM, the official ruling (I know you love to point out that I’m not official, which I’m not) has already been posted on this thread, I am 99% certain.
If he has, please link to the quote or provide the page number. Nothing personal.
@Emperor:
If he has, please link to the quote or provide the page number. Nothing personal.
I’m sorry, EM, with the search function not working and with 122 pages, that would take a lot of time. If it wasn’t so difficult to find, I would have already provided the page #, as you said.
Krieg will weigh in soon, and either confirm it, or say that I’m wrong.
Like I said, 99% sure, but I wouldn’t bet my house on it.
@Emperor:
@Emperor:
Question: The Axis have a Major IC with 10 damage, the allies capture it, reducing it to a Minor IC, does it still have 10 damage?
That is interesting, its half damaged, so there are 4 choices.
1-Either it has 10 as they are damage markers and have not been removed by paying for them
2-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged, round up to 2?
3-Since it was half damaged, the minor would be half damaged round down to 1?
4-Since the rules state that a minor factory can have no more then 6, the other 4 are dropped.
4 is most likely(in my opinion), as it is a good compromise: it follows the minor factory rule, and the allies still save 4 damage dollars. Can’t wait to see the official verdict. Really good question.
1 makes sense from a strictly technical aspect, it did receive 10 damage markers earlier and payment is the only way to remove them. The minor conversion has no effect on damage markers or it would discuss the effect. The minor damage cap rule only refers to the max damage it can receive from all current and future attacks. If no money is spent on repairs; technically the damage would remain.
It seems possible that if it was recaptured and converted back to a major, it would still have 10 markers, since no one paid to remove them.
Edit: checking the Alpha 2 rules, the last sentence under both paragraphs regarding minors and majors reads: “,after that they are no longer assigned” Assigned could indicate that existing ones may continue to exist as no new ones can be added. It could just have read that no more than 6 or 20 are possible. Which would clear the issue. Or it could say that a minor factory can never have more than 6. It simply says stop assigning, and does not say there is a maximum. It is implied but not stated. This assumes this rule supersedes the book.
All excellent points and right in line with my reasoning as well. I can’t find anything that supports reducing damage. Another consideration, The axis would have had to pay 10 to repair it to full capacity, should the allies get to only pay 6 for a factory they bombed in the first place. Also, the allies risked their bombers to inflict the original damage, how do we justify just waving away that damage? An interesting set of circumstances. I too look forward to the official ruling.
Then lets look at it from the opposite perspective, a minor IC has 6 damage and is upgraded to a Major IC, if we follow the logic of Option 4 the damage should be upgraded as well. After all the change in damage was do to a change in the factory, not Repair or SBR.
Damage would increase because you built new industrial facilities? That doesn’t make sense. Whereas if you stop using portions of industrial facilities, damage to the now-unused sections no longer matters.
In any case, the official ruling is that the damage would be downgraded to 6 because minor ICs can’t have more than 6. And upgrading damage makes no sense at all.
@Emperor:
James, this isn’t up for discussion or analysis. Krieghund has stated unequivocally, that the damage on the minor would be 6 in this example. So, it’s your #4.
EM, the official ruling (I know you love to point out that I’m not official, which I’m not) has already been posted on this thread, I am 99% certain.
If he has, please link to the quote or provide the page number. Nothing personal.
Uh, you’re asking us.:) If we are wrong, Krieghund will no doubt jump in to say so soon. But I doubt anyone here wants to dig through that much material to find something. No offense.
@Emperor:
If he has, please link to the quote or provide the page number. Nothing personal.
I’m sorry, EM, with the search function not working and with 122 pages, that would take a lot of time. If it wasn’t so difficult to find, I would have already provided the page #, as you said.
Krieg will weigh in soon, and either confirm it, or say that I’m wrong.Like I said, 99% sure, but I wouldn’t bet my house on it.
Gamer-
I’m not trying to pick a fight with you, or denigrate you in anyway, I appreciate your efforts here. But when I post a question, I need an answer that I can take back to my opponent and say here’s the answer and relevant supporting documentation. A ruling of “Gamer” said so just really isn’t gonna fly, only Kreig can issue a ruling like that. Feel free to chime in on any question I pose, but unless you also provide supporting documentation I can’t point to it to resolve a disagreement.
I do have nit to pick with you. It’s the way you come across sometimes, it’s a bit caustic and Haughty. Case in point:
James, this isn’t up for discussion or analysis. Krieghund has stated unequivocally, that the damage on the minor would be 6 in this example. So, it’s your #4.
EM, the official ruling (I know you love to point out that I’m not official, which I’m not) has already been posted on this thread, I am 99% certain.
Maybe you don’t see it but it comes across as “I’ve made my ruling, how dare you question me”
Personally I found James Analysis insightful, and absent an official ruling why shouldn’t members post their take on it? You provided no support or reasoning for your position.
I know Im not Krieghund, but I asked this question. He responded with option 4. Gamerman is correct.
Damage would increase because you built new industrial facilities? That doesn’t make sense. Whereas if you stop using portions of industrial facilities, damage to the now-unused sections no longer matters.
I was carrying the argument to it’s illogical conclusion. :-D
I know Im not Krieghund, but I asked this question. He responded with option 4. Gamerman is correct.
Then provide supporting evidence, I can’t take “TheDefinitiveS” says so as proof.
And just for the record, I belive it’s probably Option 4 as well, but I can’t find any documentation to support that.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=19919.1590, Lol maybe Gamerman answered it. But it wasnt corrected either.
It’s a little hard to believe that in all of this discussion no one actually took the radical step of consulting the Rulebook. :-o :lol:
From page 36: “When major industrial complexes are captured, convert them to minor industrial complexes and remove any damage markers in excess of 6 that are on them.”
