Invitational Classic 2nd edition

[VictoryFirst]

Either way I am happy to play 😀

[VictoryFirst]

Also are we going to get an ELO system for Classic just like one from the other games in League?

[gamerman01]

@The_Good_Captain said in Invitational Classic 2nd edition:

@gamerman01 nice! do you want me to have them post here on this thread that they would like to play? If so, I will @ them all and ask them to post that they would like to play, etc. Or let me know where I should direct them to declare their intent to play?

Yes, here. Would you keep a list of participants starting with @VictoryFirst and you can include me?

Let’s see how many you can get

[gamerman01]

@VictoryFirst said in Invitational Classic 2nd edition:

Also are we going to get an ELO system for Classic just like one from the other games in League?

Yes on 2 conditions

1. I would want to see about 25 games or more per year (just 2 a month)
   Out of the Box G40 gets 50 a year and of course those games take a lot longer

2. Our ELO founder and programmer disappeared many months ago without passing on his knowledge. He is a long-timer and will probably be back, hopefully things are OK

---

You know what, I just solved #2. Apparently I know enough about complex formulas to add Classic as an option and make its own board. The only thing I haven’t figured out yet is how to sort it.

In other words, only 1 condition! Demonstrate there is more than a tiny bit of interest, please! No time limit

[DoManMacgee]

Just reaffirming that I am one of the folks interested in playing this hypothetical classic tournament.

[The_Good_Captain]

Would you all be so kind as to try out our Classic tournament? If so please post here that you are interested.

@DoManMacgee
@VictoryFirst
@Ragnell804
@kwaspek104
@Martin
@elche
@dawgoneit
@gamerman01
and myself

Also, the godfather emeritus: @ericwool if you are still out there and wanted in.

[Martin]

Dear all, excuse my longer silence. I share the situation of TGC with full time job, family, and currently moving.

I still need to post the final table of our 2024 tournament. By occupying Spain for the first time, I finally won against elche and claimed 2nd position in the ranking :-) As I was so unfortunate to delete the table from OneDrive, I need to re-create it and publish it here, shortly.

I like the idea of a “real” league, like everybody playing everybody twice with switched sides. This is how we played in our tournament. But as this is not soccer and a game last longer than 90 minutes, the maximum was already reached with five participants. After a speedy start, we barely finished all 20 games during the calendar year.

So with a “real” league with return games being out of the question, how would the sides be decided, as there is no bidding process?
A tournament like the Playoffs in OOB, BM, and PtV will not satisfy everyone, as 50% of the players will be kicked out in round 1 and will only have one official game during the calendar year.

One possible way to do it is the way the Champions League is organized. You have a group phase, and the best one or two players of each group qualify for the final stage (semi or quarter finals). And there could be some seeding with the top players playing in different groups.

The disadvantage of the above is clearly that no new player could ever enter during a calendar year! This is the clear advantage of how the existing A&A leagues are organized and played. And we should definitely at all times enable new players to join and to market our leagues, that way.

Yet another way of getting some ranking and frequent playing is the “pyramid scheme” I know from tennis clubs. You have a pyramid with the #1 on top, #2 and #3 in the second row etc. And any player is entitled to challenge any player from the row above. I hope I explained that well. So player #7 could always challenge players #2 and #3

	               #1
                #2		#3
        #4	#5		#6	#7

In my humble opinion and long story short, it appears that the league style à la OOB. BM, and PtV is the perfect set-up for such an anticipated number of 8-14 active and regular players. There should just be a strict limit to the minimum number of games played before having a rematch (2nd game) with another player.

I like the idea of restricting Russia from attacking in round #1 and forbidding the conquest of neutrals. Personally, I like tech but not in official matches. Tech should not be the standard but allowed if both players agree on that.

Last but not least, an ELO would be very nice. I had started to look for Chess tournament software which could do the job, but for time reasons I did not get far. It would be nice to get away from Excel.

For 2025, I could set-up another “fancy” table (thank you for the compliment 😊), but it would initially only be with ranking, no rating, while looking for other solutions. The table would always be work in progress, as I like to add features like country ratings (based on international matches only), statistics etc. No guarantee for 2026 though.

All of the above is food for thought only. Excuse my disorderly post – I am writing this between first coffee and leaving for work, LOL.

[gamerman01]

I figured out how to ELO another version of the game, (Classic).
I respect whatever systems and ideas you all have for playing Classic in a smaller group,
I just want to make it clear Classic can be added to the league if there’s a decent amount of interest, and all the benefits of league play can be made available for Classic. Join any time, no commitments to play more than 1 game, lifetime ELO ranking on a board of all players for all time (starting 2025), moderator coverage and organized, established league play rules.

if that is what you players choose. I’m not twisting any arms

[The_Good_Captain]

I’ve heard from everyone except @elche and @dawgoneit

Are either of you interested in playing?

Otherwise, it looks like everyone is interested except Eric Wool

[Martin]

OK, @elche just informed me that he would like to participate, and I sent a PM to Dawg.

[gamerman01]

I do know @dawgoneit is frustrated with technical issues right now

[DoManMacgee]

@Martin @gamerman01
I have no preference in whatever system is used as long as the baseline format is not Best of 1/Single Elimination. If there is an end-of-season bracket that is single-elim to determine a champion that is fine. If the final standing is just based on overall placement after all league games are played (with no playoff) that is also fine.

[The_Good_Captain]

I feel strongly that the baseline game should use 2nd Edition rules configured with these optional rules:

Restricted attack (out of box rule)
Neutrals out of play (house rule)
Tech available on and after turn 4 (house rule)

Restricted attack is to prevent a catastrophic material imbalance that favors the allies. Neutrals out of play is to remove “Spanish Harlem”. Tech available on turn 4 is to prevent the USA tech spamming heavy bombers starting on the first turn AND ALSO to decrease the rate of games that go into 20+ turns.

As for bracketing, while I agree with @DoManMacgee, I feel strongly @gamerman01 should have full power to organize as he sees fit since he is assuming the burden of running the show.

@gamerman01 I have tied in with all of the gentlemen in the list. We are ready on your mark.

[gamerman01]

@The_Good_Captain said in Invitational Classic 2nd edition:

Would you all be so kind as to try out our Classic tournament? If so please post here that you are interested.

@DoManMacgee
@VictoryFirst
@Ragnell804
@kwaspek104
@Martin
@elche
@dawgoneit
@gamerman01
and myself

Also, the godfather emeritus: @ericwool if you are still out there and wanted in.

We have maybe 8, 9, or 10 from what you’re telling me.

I’m sensing interest in a 2025 league category, maybe we see how much playing and interest there is in this tournament.

It also sounds like we don’t really want one and done. I checked out some ways of doing tournaments, and I favor the double elimination model.

You aren’t out until you lose twice. When you lose, you go down to the second bracket and play with others who’ve lost 1 game. Winner of the 2nd bracket faces winner of the first. Technically, to be double elimination the winner of the “loser” bracket would have to win TWICE, else the winner of the first bracket who loses a game to the lurking 2nd bracket winner would have only lost once. This is the way I think it should be (winner of 2nd bracket has to beat the winner of the first bracket twice in order to win it all)

[gamerman01]

This blue text is a link to the bracket spreadsheet:
2025 Classic Tournament bracket

You may want to bookmark this spreadsheet after clicking

I have tentatively set up brackets for a double elimination 2025 Classic tournament.
We have possible 10 players, with @dawgoneit having technical issues and a wafting call for @ericwool outstanding.

I used your round robin? results from before to do a little seeding, but nothing hard and fast. I have @The_Good_Captain as a #1 and Ragnell804 as #2 based on those results, but did not necessarily pair them with who MIGHT be a 7 or 8, after all, they probably don’t want to hit a bug with their windshield!

If you ask me any more about my pairings, I will give you some kind of answer but don’t make me hurt your feelings!

Seriously, let me know what you think, I don’t know you players much except some league players and their G40 records, and I did play kwas and elche one game of Classic last year. Rather small sample size.

So I await decisions on dawg and ericwool
It’s possible to do something about a #9 and #10 entry, but is so nice and clean if we just have 8. I would be willing to bow out if a 9 or 10 is wanting in, just putting that out there now.

[gamerman01]

One more time, this is a double elimination tournament which I think is a beautiful thing. You won’t be knocked out of the tournament just because you got paired up with the best Classic player in the world and lost in 2 rounds. You get another chance to rise from the ashes

If more play against more players in more of a round robin type thing is desired, I suggest we play this double elimination tournament and if you’re itching for more and want to see what you’re made of, we can kick off a 2025 league season.

I would also suggest, if Classic play starts in the league, that the game results from this tournament be counted as regular season league games for 2025, because more data is better than less. This is what we’ve done in the A&A.org league for many years (count tournament/playoff games).

Feedback is welcome, but of course we will only be doing things one way when it’s time to start!

[VictoryFirst]

I don’t know if @kwaspek104 is going to play in the tournament as the last time he was online was 20 days ago.

[Ragnell804]

I’m in for the tournament

[gamerman01]

I added a tab to the tournament results board for guidelines and rules.

It’s just the ruleset @The_Good_Captain set out for us for the maximum enjoyment of us all,
And a little guidance on choosing sides if players both want the same side.

If @kwaspek104 doesn’t show, for The_Good_Captain, I figure that’s not much of a problem, The_Good_Captain gets a “bye” or plays ericwool or dawgoneit if they want in at some point

The “bye” would travel down to the losers bracket where someone there will get the automatic win.
Perhaps the first one to lose in bracket one may be given the bye, so that they do not begin crying

[gamerman01]

And I don’t think we have anything else to wait on, other than The_Good_Captain either plays Kwas, ericwool, dawgoneit, or takes the bye if none of them show.

You may contact your assigned opponent and begin!

@VictoryFirst I am not in a hurry because this came up quickly and I’m embroiled in 2 other hot contests, but that doesn’t mean I can’t start soon, contact me when ready!