Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here

[pacifiersboard]

thanks !

[pacifiersboard]

I said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

Round 3, Russian turn, Russia not at war, but (European) Axis had already declared war to true neutrals: Can Russia claim Mongolian territories by moving in during non-combat without declaring war to Japan? (They cannot declare war to Germany/Italy as far as I know.)

@Krieghund
I assume in the upper scenario that Russia can claim Mongolia after it did declare war to Japan (even without attacking it).

@gamerman01
Further I assume there is no difference with this between OOB 2nd edition and BM3/4

[gamerman01]

@pacifiersboard said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

Further I assume there is no difference with this between OOB 2nd edition and BM3/4

Right - balanced mod didn’t make any changes to this area

[Krieghund]

@pacifiersboard said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

I said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

Round 3, Russian turn, Russia not at war, but (European) Axis had already declared war to true neutrals: Can Russia claim Mongolian territories by moving in during non-combat without declaring war to Japan? (They cannot declare war to Germany/Italy as far as I know.)

@Krieghund
I assume in the upper scenario that Russia can claim Mongolia after it did declare war to Japan (even without attacking it).

Correct.

[Amon-Sul]

@gamerman01 @Krieghund

1. So , can Russia enter Mongolia without Being in war with Japan ?

Is it enough for Russia to be in war with European axis to claim Mongolians, or it has to be at war with Japan?

2. After Russia goes in to Mongolia, can Japan enter there to empty territorries without :

• making all Mongolians emidiately Russian
• going to war with Russia

[gamerman01]

@Amon-Sul said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

1. So , can Russia enter Mongolia without Being in war with Japan ?

Yes, if at war with Germany or Italy, but
Mongolia is a strict neutral at game start.
Any Russian (or any other nationality) entering Mongolia is an attack on a strict neutral that will cause all other strict neutrals to go pro-Axis. So no different than Switzerland or Spain in that regard.

Is it enough for Russia to be in war with European axis to claim Mongolians, or it has to be at war with Japan?

Russia or any other Ally can only “claim” Mongolians if Axis attacked a strict neutral before Allies did

2. After Russia goes in to Mongolia, can Japan enter there to empty territorries without :

• making all Mongolians emidiately Russian
• going to war with Russia

I don’t think you’ll have this question after understanding the answers to #1, but let me know if you’re still unsure about anything

[gamerman01]

Based on the way you asked the question, I think it may help:

Russia is not an ally of Mongolia - Mongolia is not a pro-Allied neutral at the beginning of the game in the way that Persia is. Mongolia is a strict neutral with some special rules.

If Japan attacks a Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia, then the 6 Mongolians turn Russian and Mongolia turns red. Also, Japan can’t enter Mongolia or attack Mongolians in the same turn she attacks Russian controlled territory bordering Mongolia, or it is considered an attack on a strict neutral which triggers all the other strict neutrals in the world

[Krieghund]

@Amon-Sul said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

@gamerman01 @Krieghund

1. So , can Russia enter Mongolia without Being in war with Japan ?

Is it enough for Russia to be in war with European axis to claim Mongolians, or it has to be at war with Japan?

The USSR must be at war with Japan, as it has the restrictions of a neutral power on the Pacific map when it is not, and neutral powers can’t enter neutral territories.

[Amon-Sul]

My questions were based for the situation in which the axis attacked True neutrals on the 1st or 2nd round of the game.

Sorry for not mentioning it, i was refering to that old case so i thought it goes without saying

[Amon-Sul]

@Krieghund said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

@Amon-Sul said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

@gamerman01 @Krieghund

1. So , can Russia enter Mongolia without Being in war with Japan ?

Is it enough for Russia to be in war with European axis to claim Mongolians, or it has to be at war with Japan?

The USSR must be at war with Japan, as it has the restrictions of a neutral power on the Pacific map when it is not, and neutral powers can’t enter neutral territories.

@Krieghund @gamerman01

So,

Just to double check:

The Axis attacked True neutrals in rd 2.
European Axis are not in war with Russia.
Japan is not in war with Russia.

Russians can claim (“Pick up”) Mongolian inf ONLY IF THEY ARE IN WAR WITH JAPAN?

If Russia and Japan stay neutral (no matter axis attacked True neutrals, and even Euroepan axis went to war with Russia) Russia cant enter Mongolia, but for example UK can(when at war with Japan, from rd 3 onwards)?

[Amon-Sul]

Now the second part of my question.

A) What about Japan and Mongolia once Germany and Italy attack True neutrals?

(Russia and Japan still neutral)

Does something change? In what way are the european Axis attack on True neutrals and Mongolia - Japan relations connected?

I suppose Japan in that case (european Axis crush True neutrals) still can’t enter Mongolia and bash those guys without provoking them to go red ?

Or/and still can’t enter empty Mongolian land without provoking them to go red?

[Amon-Sul]

@gamerman01

“Russia or any other Ally can only “claim” Mongolians if Axis attacked a strict neutral before Allies did”

Triple a does not allow it to Russia.

It seems Russia has to be at war (or even at war with Japan?)

Or triple a is wrong?

It would not be the first time

[gamerman01]

That’s a lot of questions but I think I understand what it is you mainly want to know.

I changed the 2nd #1 above to be #3 to this won’t be as confusing.

I’m sorry I assumed the neutrals had not been attacked. Something you said in your initial post(s) did indicate that they had been (you talked about claiming Mongolians while Japan was not at war with Russia). I thought you were maybe just confused given the nature of your questions, but now I know I made an assumption I shouldn’t have. In my defense, attacks on strict neutrals by Euro Axis so early do surprise me!

OK, in your situation #1 and #2 have not happened, so you are in #3b territory. The Axis broke strict neutrality elsewhere, so Mongolia has become Pro-Allied, same as Persia or Yugoslavia are at game start.

Russia is not at war with Japan so Russia is neutral on the Pacific map. Mongolia is neutral (pro-allied neutral). As @Krieghund helped us with, Russia is neutral on the Pacific map and neutrals can’t enter other neutrals, so Russia can’t claim Mongolians. But she can merely declare war on Japan (haven’t played much OOB in years, but I think there are no downsides to Russia or Japan declaring on each other)

Japan can attack Mongolia because it is a pro-Allied neutral in your situation, and Japan is at war. Russia may declare war on Japan and then could claim Mongolians like any Allied power at war can claim a pro-Allied neutral.
As far as Japan goes, the rulebook says if Japan attacks any Soviet-controlled territory that is adjacent to any Mongolian territory, all Mongolian territories that are still neutral OR PRO-ALLIES, or have joined the Allies as a result of a FAILED Japanese attack, will be placed under the control of the Soviet Union at the end of Japan’s Conduct Combat phase. Etc.
So if Japan attacks a Mongolia pro-Allied territory in the same Japan turn as Japan attacks a Soviet-controlled territory bordering Mongolia, the rest of Mongolia would instantly become Russian and Russia could move those infantry on the next turn, without claiming them.

Indeed you have an interesting and unusual situation. @Krieghund will audit my answer above, but I think I got it.

I probably should stay out of it since Krieghund is still so quickly responsive, so that Krieghund doesn’t have to sort through my answer and make sure it’s correct, along with your questions.

[Amon-Sul]

@gamerman01

Thanks a lot for the very fast and thorough explanation.

It seems that triple a is correct.

Russia can’t pick up Mongolians as long as being neutral to Japan.

As for the other part, Japan can attack Mongolia while still being neutral to Russia.

It is a rare situation but it is good to know.

Also, thanks for explaining all the other things like Japan attacking Amur and Mongolia at the same time.

Of course, all of this issues are in this (axis crushed True neutrals scenario).

I dont play OOB, but i think that BM and OOB shouldnt have much differences here

[gamerman01]

Great!! You understood me better than I understood my own explanations.

Yes, the reason I mentioned OOB is because in OOB I don’t think there’s any reason not to declare war on Japan with Russia. In BM there definitely is, as you know

Really happy that helped you a lot

[Krieghund]

@gamerman01 said in Mongolia and Neutrals - rules summarized here:

@Krieghund will audit my answer above, but I think I got it.

You did indeed.