Russian defense against a Combined German and Italian Offensive

[tloger]

Hi guys been away from the game for much of the summer being occupied with work and my studies.  I recently have gotten the game back out and have been strating for the Axis.  For an Axis strat lately I have been leaning towards a combined German and Italian offensive.  With Italy I ignore Africa for the most part and I only position my units jointly with German units for a combined defense in either Morocco or Lybia.  With Germany I also ignore Egypt, and I use my sz 13 tranny to take a man and tank to Ukraine ( I use open Dardenelles option).  I move all my tanks into position to Ukraine with 2 men and art.  The mass offensive power stationed leaves Russia with no choice to set up a defensive front in the Caucasus and eastern Ukraine.  My Italian move consists of my balkan tank pushing into Ukraine and my tranny and fleet dropping off an additional tank, man, and i send my fighter to Ukraine as well.  Other units are moved to France.  Now the Russian player obviously sense a Caucasus first strat and moves units accordingly.  What usually develops is what I call the  “Italian Screen” maneuver.  Depending on how strong his units are in Eastern Ukraine (Usually 3-5 men) and Caucasus (Usually bulk of defense is positioned there, sensing a push for the IC) the Italian force can engage EU and open a straight shot for Germany to Russia at the top of the next turn. Or if the defense is balanced in both Russian territories, the Italian force holds, Germany attempts to take Caucasus, if taken the Italian force fills the gap left after the battle and Caucasus is taken.  My G1 purchase ranges from 6 armor or 5 men 3 armor, or 7 men 1 fighter.  I usually take Baltic and E Poland with meager forces, if they are successful I can still do a northerly swing back to Baltic states if I deem Caucasus out of reach ( this is especially effective with a 6 armor purchase, because you can redirect the board with a 10 armor plus swing the Russian player may not be expecting.)  Anyways I was just curious what other players do for a Russian defense with a combined Italian and German push.  In my play group the “Italian Screen” or Italian gap filling method proves to be very effective and hard to defend.  I am not saying that this Axis strat is fool proof or unstoppable play( obviously dice still play a roll in the game), but I was just curious what some of you more experience players would do to counter this.  For me I can’t seem to get my other Allied units in European theater in time to curtail it, especially if Japan opened strong, the US player usually just builds bombers for Europe and the rest is Pacific.  SBR’ing Germany is somewhat effective but I have found it sometimes does not create enough time.  It generally all depends on the Russian play.  German and Italian units from rounds 1-3 are enough to break through in rounds 4 or 5. Strong GB in Africa usually does not have enough time to make a difference after taking out the initial Axis forces and usually is tied up with Japan sweeping into Persia.  Your comments are most appreciated, Thank you and good gaming!

[bugoo]

Russia would build mostly men.  Would not abandon Karelia.

UK would push out from egypt into Libya and move TJ and India forces into persia.  Also, build up fleet typically in SZ 2 ending with 3 transports, maybe 4.  Land 2 figs in Kar and land egypt fig into Cauc.

US would purchase 2 bombers, plus men/armor to start LA shuck and move pacific fleet toward Atlantic.

On turn 2

Russia moves 2-3 inf into persia to avoid japan landing while holding on and building mostly inf.

with UK i would take Norway/finland and land in Karelia.  Move Figs as needed to defend russia, move Persia forces into cauc if needed, or leave them there to hold Japan.  Play with african forces as desired.

with US begin the SBR campain, build more trannies and DDs if needed to cover trannie fleet.

On turn 3

Ditto with Russia/UK

US lands in algeria, sets up to buy more trannies and stockpile them to threaten Italy and/or France.  Sink I fleet when available.

At this point G is down bit time in income from finland/norwary/africa/4+ SBRs, Italy is done as she must defend, and Russia should be fine.  Meanwhile Italy and france are threatened, and the UK has a large stack in Karelia.

[Panzer Leader]

I have played Russia a couple of times in 41 version with NOs and it is a difficult task keeping the Axis at bay. The trick I used was to buy all men for the first while and did not expose my attack pieces so as to always have a counter attack. Keep a “buffer zone” between German troops and the bulk of your men. Leave one man on the “buffer” coutries. If Germany bombs Karelia do not repair it, save your money and purchase on Cacauscus and Russia. Always have a counter attack force ready to retake key countries. If Karelia falls do not worry about it, as Britain should be able to help you there as Russia concentrates on keeping Cacauscus and not loosing Russia.
I also bought an IC on India and South Africa with Britain on turn one and purchased to capacity there every turn to help Russia. In my game Italy took all the Med and had all their NOs right away, making 27 IPC on turn 3. But I did manage to hold out and slowly started to get the upper hand, but it was a long comeback, and eventually the Allies did win. :-)

[Corbeau Blanc]

You might as well base your axis forces in East Poland rather than Ukraine.

• From there, your italian can opener will be effective against both Belorussia and East Ukraine.
• Your additional tank forces will reach it in 1 turn from Germany
• Most importantly, you threaten all 3 IC of Russia, masking your intended target and forcing Russia to divert forces, quite probably to abandon Karelia.

I am assuming you are using mostly tank forces here.

[Jennifer]

I’ve been toying with the idea of similar in a National Objective game, and I would almost certainly go with similar in a game without National Objectives. (Why risk tanks for 3 IPC in land?)

BTW, there is this thing called a “Enter” button.  Would it be permissible to ask you to use it a little more often to break up the text?

[dondoolee]

I employ a similar strat a lot, except I think you really should go after Egypt with Germany and Italy if you must.  If you can get rid of the forces with Germany, it leaves any UK forces lingering about in South Asia dead by J2 unless the USSR makes a heavy commitment (which is going to weaken them against your Axis blitz).  It also is a way to get quick cash for a few turns with very few resources (particularly for Italian NO’s).  I also prefer stacking in East Poland w/ Germany rather than the Ukraine, as it offers more diversity.

If you use this type of set up I think it works better for Japan to not take out the Phil on J1 (wait until J2), and really set up as many troops that can reach India/Persia for J2.  Also make sure you move your 2 carriers at Midawy down towards Aus, to put them in striking range of stragling Allied navies and in striking range of Australia.  And keep trying to pump fig into europe, and hopefully harass Africa if you can.

[jsp4563]

Roger, What’s missing from your narrative is what did you do about the UK fleet in the Atlantic\North Sea.  How lightly was France left defended before Italian reinforcements arrived.

I like the idea of a combined push, but your scenario leaves Italy without cash from their NO’s.  It’s been my experience that an effective Italy needs to have their income up near $20.  You may collect $15 after I1 but from then on looks like $9.  Prime target for an SBR campaign.

A light move into Baltic is tricky, it has 3inf you have to defeat first and then still deal with a counter attack.  If it’s lightly taken, Russia will stay put in Karelia.  Might even attack and take BST and Finland.  Finland probably for sure.

Russia has the advantage on defense R1 because it gets an immediate infusion of 6inf into its key territories from Kazakh, Novo, and Archangel.  With that it gets to purchase $30, plenty protect both Caucasus and Russia.

[tloger]

For my Atlantic moves, I engaged all GB ships except the DD and Tranny off of Canada.  I used a combo of all my subs and aircraft including the bomber.  I used my Cruiser for bombardment and amphib for baltic states.  I moved two men from Germany to France, and one man and one artillery from Italy to France.

Thank you guys for your imput.  Its not a sure win strat, but from what I have played if the dice fall your way its a quick hit to Russia if the Russian player buffers belo and eastern ukraine with thin forces.  Italy can open the door and have Germany tank blitz with 7 armor and some air power before Russia can counter attack.

PS: I paragraphed my entry upon Commander Jenn’s request :) Good Gaming

[Clearco]

I also like that Italians help to support the Germans againts the Russians that way.
But I suspect that Russia would survive longer if counterattacking with tanks
instead of building up infantries.