As I haven’t played A50 I’m wondering what the effect of reduced ship prices has been. Do people buy more navy in general?
Fact is, most ships spent most of the war sheltering in ports heavily guarded by defending aircraft and AA facilities - a far cry from the sitting ducks that big ships have always been in A&A. Allow ships to be “in port” by simply docking at any friendly land area and you change the whole dynamic of naval operations. Players can still attack ships by air, but will have to deal with defending land units as well, though of course ships cannot defend against overland attacks.
Perhaps in the case of a combined land/naval assault the ships can choose to engage enemy shipping rather than staying in port; a few anomalies need to be addressed but overall I think this would produce a more interesting use of shipping.
For example on G1 it’s no longer virtually mandatory for Germany to concentrate on sinking the UK fleet, nor is it so easy for the Allies to sink the U-boat menace and clear the way for the Atlantic shuck…
As it stands the only ships worth having are in a large fleet with carrier defence. Or is that is a more accurate reflection of reality?
I love this idea, but figure you come too late to see it in A&A 1942, but if you e-mail Larry he just might include it in the erreta
I think the AA50 naval rules change it up nicely. Cruisers are a more versatile unit than battleships and people tend to keep diverse fleet. (which is pretty accurate) Cheaper subs and the advance submerge rule make them more usefull for thwarting enemy advances. So, overall I think the AA50 naval rules were pretty good. (Transports especially.)
Personally I wouldnt change a thing.
Great idea Flashman.
i’d be interested in trying this out with the group next time around.
Would totally change naval operations to be sure. Argument i’d see would be along the lines of that makes it more involved with rolling the game is magnified to be simple enough for light wargaming…and how do we keep track of what’s in port or not, though simply turning ships on side would likely solve.
Maybe ports could work in A&A, but in AA50 41 it’s designed so that it helps Germany one rnd if the UK fleet is killed. German navy shall be killed UK1. It could or should be different perhaps, but this is meant to happen, within most effective strats. Germany is not meant to have a fleet at all after UK1. This is same for Revised, although the German navy can be killed UK2 rather than UK1. There is no big difference between keeping a few useless boats in port to avoid getting them killed, or the opponent have more ships and air, so he killed your naval units. The goal is to rule the seas, although not so important in A&A as in WW2, but in A&A allies must control the atlantic, and also the Med after a few rnds, but other naval strats are not crucial within effective gameplay.
I like the suggestion. We may actually see a German navy beyond round 1…
However, how would you indicate that the ship is in harbor? Flip it on it’s side?
@TG:
I like the suggestion. We may actually see a German navy beyond round 1…
However, how would you indicate that the ship is in harbor? Flip it on it’s side?
and how do we keep track of what’s in port or not, though simply turning ships on side would likely solve.
sure, was a thought i had as a simple way to do it. someone like FMG could likely come up with something, or could use something like the taskforce cards for the system…
@Subotai:
Maybe ports could work in A&A, but in AA50 41
that’s the beauty here, it’s not AA50, so new thoughts can be imagined. Ports would have to result in new strategies and plans, maybe new setups. Perhaps ports with ships in them could affect a round or two of amphibious landings, so ships in deep water ports on the coast of france (cherbourg) could affect the landings of the Allies. When the UK fleet needs to be destroyed would have to be re-examined because when the GER fleet could be destroyed is now different too. Since they survive past when they did previous incarnations at least means that it takes longer for the allies to gain the advantage of more ships and more planes in order to take out their fleet, whether in port or at sea.
could help in the discussion to expand the seazones of the atlantic, taking more than 1 round to cross so the uboats couldn’t just hide out in ports along the coast, but try to take out the Allies along the way, then fall back…
through it all it’s the evolution of the game that occurs when new aspects and developments occur and are discussed.
So if I invade France, and capture it, the ships in port there become mine?
hmmm but I wonder if the oceans would need to expand so that crossing them wouldn’t be just a dash from one port to another.
And then there’s the Med….
To clarify some details:
The unit is placed OVER the land/sea border. This indicates that the ship is in port, but also keeps track of which port it is in (i.e. it must enter and leave by the same sea zone.)
Ships in port can be captured, but I suggest allowing the defender an attempt to scuttle the ships before any combat rolls are made. Perhaps allow one scuttle for each 6 rolled per combat round; maybe each attempt must be taken in lieu of a return fire from a defending unit, i.e. you target your own unit rather than the enemies? Each roll should target a specific naval unit.
This links with my campaign for wider oceans, with a minimum 2-turn Atlantic crossing leaving a “killing zone” for the U-boats in mid-ocean, or forcing the allied convoys to take the long route via Iceland/Greenland.
I’ve also suggested making every ship dock in port on each and every turn of the game. This can be at any time during the turn, and may just mean staying where it is as long as it can be demonstrated that the ship is within range of a friendly port and back (it shouldn’t cost movement points to move in/out of port).
This can make previously worthless island territories valuable fueling stops.
I mark important ports on my maps, these also serve as ship building and repair facilities. Usually they’re sited on the junction of a land and two sea zones, allowing ships to sail out into either adjacent SZ.
