UK/US vs Japan

[dondoolee]

I have yet to play a game where Both Germany and Russia are effectivly knocked out with no way of immediate recovery and all that is left is essentialy a UK/US vs Japan game.  Has anybody had this match up yet?  More importantly how frequently do you come across it, and what are the usual result?

[Veqryn]

Assuming you are playing with National Objectives.
Well, If USA spends all its money in the pacific each turn (plus moves its bombers and everything in that direction), then you can have that match-up without requiring anything special from germany or russia.

Japan starts out making 17 or 31 a turn, depending on 1941 or 1942, but after taking the money islands plus half of china plus india, Japan is making about 55 on turn 3, and up to 65 by turn 5.

USA starts out with 40 or 38 a turn, and after 2 turns should be making 48.  If USA is going pacific, then USA will never make more than 48 a turn.

At the end of the first round, Japan has a fleet of expensive ships left, as well as a ridiculous number of fighters.  America has almost no fleet at all at the end of the first round, and pretty much has to build one from scratch.

I’ve play a ton of games where America went all out in the pacific.  Japan can spend 100% of her income turn 1 towards mainland asian forces, then dropping down to 2/3rds of her income turn 2, then down to between 1/4 and 1/2 of her income the rest of the game on mainland forces.  She can knock out any American Navy that gets within range (2 spaces) of Formosa, and this usually happens on turn 4 or 5.  Even with America forcing Japan to spend money on Pacific boats, Japan can still afford to capture all of China, India and Persia, as well as several Siberian territories, and have a good sized Japanese force sitting on the doorstep to the Caucasus on turn 6, or at the latest turn 7.

Result: With NOs, Japan can decimate any American Navy and still make it to Russia by turn 6 with a decent force.  (Meanwhile, for the first few turns Britain will be unable to take both Norway AND maintain control of Africa, therefore Britain has to pick one.  Russia then either has to fend off all of Germany and Italy by itself, or if the Brits help via Norway, the Axis get Africa and the game is lost)

[Adlertag]

The big design mistake in the 1942 scenario is that Japan start before UK. In Revised UK start before Japan and can use the Indian Fleet to take East Indies and Borneo and block the Japanese navy, and the Australian sub can kill the Japanese sub, and the Indian fighter can reinforce the Hawaii fleet. I guess the playtesters was focusing on the 1941 scenario and forgott all about the 42. Also the NO’s make no sense to me. Nobody in my playgroup likes NO’s anyway, so we dont use them. Larry, bring back the convoy zones.

[beerbelly]

I’ve played several games that followed the scenario you described.  If the USA concentrates on KGF, this scenario has a reasonable chance of happening.  Japan races for Moscow while the Allies triple team Germany.

There were mixed results when the game became USA/UK vs Japan.  The Allies were usually victorious if Berlin was captured by USA.  If Berlin was was captured by UK, then Japan usually won.  When USA captures Berlin, it allows both USA/UK to reinforce Europe immediately in force.  If UK captures Berlin, then USA must continue to shuck troops across the Atlantic.

[Veqryn]

USA usually takes out Italy. If UK takes Berlin, and USA still needs to produce more units, they could make a Factory in either France or Poland/Balkans or both.  Usually, in KGF, USA gets Berlin and Italy, while UK gets France, so in that case it would be beneficial for the UK to build an IC in France, as well as to be the one that captures Karelia back from Japan.  Generally though, if Moscow and Italy and Germany all die, the Allies have the advantage of owning Europe which I think is superior to owning Russia.

[Octopus]

I did play a Revised game where I lost Germany the same turn I took Russia (with Japan). Many observers thought I didn’t stand a chance and said the game was over. After 1 turn it was painfully clear Japan was going to stomp the remaining Allies.

I would not say that just because capitals were swapped that anyone side has an advantage, but it was how I took Russia that gave me the ability to stomp the remaining allies.

When you move to take a capital, prepare for what happens after.

[Jennifer]

I find the US/UK vs Japan option (1941) is very viable.  Maybe I am misreading what was said before, but it actually seems more viable to me than a traditional kill Germany first. (I think this is because Italy can liberate/take land and Germany can reinforce it with fighters to defend now, a very significant and major defensive capability!)

America may be limited to 52 IPC or less a round if they go Kill Japan first.  However, England should be making significantly more than the 20-30 IPC they get in a kill Germany/ignore Japan campaign because of the NO in the Pacific, the non-loss of the NO in the Indian Ocean/Africa/Australia/etc, the increased land ownership in the Asian SE and SE Pacific Islands, etc.  Meanwhile, Japan shouldn’t be earning too much either, America could, realistically, be earning near to more than double what Japan is if played right.