Tech with planes seems just way to over powered.

[packrat76]

OK so we have been playing non stop and its come down to everyone dumping money into research and building planes and who gets heavy bombers or fighters or long range, pretty much have been winning. and water boats are now never built cause they just die. And there isnt really any  research for water units other then subs and lower cost for boats, which both aint great, were thiking of adding a tech tree or changing out some with maybe battle ships get an extra attack against planes or and transports get to defend with a 1 things like these you could go on and on… but then at least water units would be worth building… we also were throwing the idea of making sea areas victory cities as well so you would have to fight for sea squares as well but thats still just an idea…  I was just wondering if any other people feel research and planes are over powering the game?

[Lucifer]

Play without tech, thats my suggestion  :wink:

I know many players have fun playing with tech, and obviously this is good reason to play with tech, but tech is broken imo.
The reason why I feel tech in A&A is broken is that if you play a game with tech, then you never know if your opponent will get heavybombers. If you then don’t get the same tech, then your opponent will have a very big advantage, so big that you probably loose the game because of this tech alone.

[Fenian]

I think there are quite a few powerful techs in the game - HB is probably still the king but the gap between some of these techs is smaller now - the industrial tech (name escapes me) that adds +2 builds and halves the effects of SBR has some serious strategic implications, double strength AA is scary too if your opponent has gone airforce heavy. Theres more but I feel tech is better balanced now.

[wodan46]

I’d agree that the techs for Air units are overpowered, while Sea techs are underpowered.  Combined that the increased size of the board and lowered cost of Bombers, and you have Air units excelling.

Lets compare
Air: Gets Heavy Bombers(Best Tech in the Game), Paratroopers(Powerful and Abusive), Long Range Aircraft(Powerful and Abusive), Jet Fighters(Powerful, but reasonable).
Sea: Gets Improved Shipyards(Ships cost 15-20% less, which won’t pay itself off until you buy 60 or so IPCs worth of Ships, and doesn’t boost existing Air), and Super Subs(which is useful only if you are able to use Subs).

[packrat76]

wodan, that’s totally my problem is that air is already very strong but once you add some techs to them, boats just dont even have a chance, and in all our last games no one will make boats knowing they will loose them all and the loss of 1 or 2 or even 3 transports along with them which is just money that goes down the drain… i would way rather make bombers then boats  bombers will kill ships and transports with them for alot less money loss plus when  ships arent around your bombers are helping attack land or bomb raids. while all ships really do is try to help escort and protect transports.

[wodan46]

Improved Shipyards is replaced with Mobile Fleet: Carriers, Cruisers, and Subs have 3 Movement, and may move during noncombat even if they participated in a battle.
Super Subs is replaced with Capital Ships: Battleships roll 2 Dice

[TG Moses VI]

I think that’s why the Allies have such a tough time in this game.  UK and USA require a blue water navy to operate.  For certain Italy needs to maintain a fortilla, but Japan is so well insulated, being able to halt any American movements with planes or through factory building in Asia.

[packrat76]

Wodan thats not a bad idea cause really super subs are crap for allies anyways, its not like axis are going to build boats. I’m going to talk to the boys and see if they want to make those rule changes, but something has to be changed cause right now any fleet being build trying to excort transports are getting nuked by bombers and fighters.I think the whole  research lines should be fixed maybe thats what  we should start is a thread for New better research lines and get everyones ideas. i would love for carriers to be able to have 3 fighters on them, and AA guns on battle ships :-o

[allies_fly]

@packrat76:

Wodan thats not a bad idea cause really super subs are crap for allies anyways, its not like axis are going to build boats.

I disagree.  With US buying Subs, Japan will HAVE to buy some DD’s.
Give the Subs some back up with a small carrier based fleet (loaded A/C, some DDs)

I would hesitate to incorporate house rules until you’ve tried many different strategies.
House rules should not compensate for poor strategies.

[packrat76]

Japan or the usa just builds all bombers and fighters the other wont have boats. they all will be dead.

[Sgt. Wonko]

I agree that house rules should be used sparingly, and only after fully playtesting the game. But battleships having a tech to get two rolls is a good counterpart to heavy bombers. Battleships are slightly less useful with the advent of cruisers and this would compensate for that. Plus, Capitol Ships just sounds cool.  :-D

[HannibalSW]

Need to think about the capitol ship thing, when do they get two attacks?  Attacking, Defending and Shore bombardment?  If so does it always attack on a 4 on all those instances? Do you get two shore shots for one transport offload or do you need two for the extra shot?  HB’s attack on a 4 twice but definitely do not defend on a 4 and they don’t get shore bombardment.  Just some stuff to consider about what house rules you are making.

[Unknown Soldier]

If Germany is buying all aircraft to kill Allied fleet builds, what on earth are the Soviets doing the whole time?  :?

Red Army tanks should be rolling into Berlin within a couple turns…

[wodan46]

@HannibalSW:

Need to think about the capitol ship thing, when do they get two attacks?  Attacking, Defending and Shore bombardment?  If so does it always attack on a 4 on all those instances? Do you get two shore shots for one transport offload or do you need two for the extra shot?  HB’s attack on a 4 twice but definitely do not defend on a 4 and they don’t get shore bombardment.  Just some stuff to consider about what house rules you are making.

Attack and Defense, not for Bombardment.  While Bombers only get the 4+4 on attack, they also cost 12, move 6, may participate in land battles, and can retreat from the frontline.  Battleships cost 20, move 2, may not participate in land battles for more than one, and are left exposed on the frontline when they attack.  Heavy Bombers is still better than Capital Ships.

[packrat76]

So we played another game last night and all i did was build bombers, a few fighters and inf with germany, US had carriers and destroyers and battle ships and 2 transports,  We didnt play with research cause well its just broken ATM  This was the problem Carriers cost 14 they defend for 2, 2 fighters defend at 4’s if i attack with 1 fighter 2 bombers its same amount of money but odds are in my favour, let alone the free transports that go down and the other boats. i have around 10 bombers with a  few fighters on germany i dont have to worry about  gaurding my back land like france cause well there is never any boats.  rest of the time my planes and inf are moving up the lines and raid bombing the crap out of everyone.
Now if you add research to all my planes well it’s lights out. Boats  as is can’t go up against planes and boats do nothing but transport and odd bombardment… planes Do it all!!! the research should of gone to mainly boats not planes… why would you give the most powerfull unit more power? If all those planes research went to boats you would have a fighting chance at least against planes. Any way as is  we just dont build boats… its a loss of over all money.

[wodan46]

Here are my revised versions of the two replacement Naval Techs.

Mobile Fleets: Your ships may move 1 during the non-combat phase in addition to their regular movement/attack.
Capital Ships: Undamaged Battleships now roll two dice in Naval Battles.  Cruisers Attack and Defend on 4s.

[Jennifer]

Gunna have to agree, if your opponent has HB and or JF/LRA then you just build Radar Equipped AA Guns and Improved Manufacturing and negate most of their abilities.

That’s the beautiful thing about AA50, all the techs are designed to reduce the effectiveness of the other techs!

[packrat76]

boats have nothing good against planes thats the problem. Then you have to give battleships AA guns. it’s the only way to give boats a little fighting chance against planes.

[wodan46]

@Cmdr:

Gunna have to agree, if your opponent has HB and or JF/LRA then you just build Radar Equipped AA Guns and Improved Manufacturing and negate most of their abilities.

That’s the beautiful thing about AA50, all the techs are designed to reduce the effectiveness of the other techs!

Except that the odds of you getting the right defensive tech is low, given that Radar and Improved Manufacturing are in different branches.  Furthermore, neither of those techs helps Navies at all, or ground units much, all it does is protect against SBRs.

[packrat76]

wodan would you rather navel movement or battleships with aa guns? i think i would rather a AA gun to at least knock downa  couple planes