How to get german boots to the russian front?

[Pvt.Patterson]

I have been wondering about this for a bit now. I have play a few times as Germany and once as Russia and I have never lost or taken Moscow. Thats true in all but two of the six games Ive played. Moscow is evil to take from a good Russian player with a rag tag force of a few tanks, Art and a butt ton of Inf before the UK and US have time to help them. I was thinking Mechanized Inf. Also a IC in Poland in G1 and 3 Inf + 1 tank and in G2 3 Art 4-6 tanks or 1 fighter, or More Inf?? Any help with this because i hate trading German tanks for Russian infantry.

[wodan46]

G1: Build 10 Infantry
G2: Build 10 Tanks
G3: Build 10 Tanks
G4: Whistle
G5: Take Moscow with G1+G2+G3 builds.

[d142]

guard your starting airforce, it would take a long time for the s.u. to build an airforce,

build a lot of armor, you need that to move quickly at the eastern front,

you also need a lot of infantry and artillery, move your infantry and artillery to forward position’s, guarded by armor

build more infantry at the early round’s to make time to move toward russia

if you have not broken the second line by turn 3, you are in for a long hard struggle

karelia would be an objective, because of the 5 infantry that are there

with good planning russia can withstand almost any type of attack from germany,
during the early round’s russia has no airforce,

buy a bomber to consolidate the existing one at germany,

when attacking the second line concentrate the main focus of your attack above or below the german n.o. marker
use a secondary force, reinforced with aircraft to attack and repel the other front,

by the start of turn 4 you could have enough to attack russia, do not fall into the trap of trying to hold onto every territory, russia is the objective, and for this, you need karelia solidly, and the first line, you only need 1 territory from the second line to attack russia, if you have been moving infantry forward to the front line, you should have 5 -10 infantry for a first wave assault at russia, your second round infantry should be behind these, you should also have 2 bomber’s 4-5 fighter’s, 4-5 armor, and some artillery to boost your infantry attack, russia is not an attacking force until round 2,
it would be round 3 before you see the deployment of russia’s force, if the russian player has purchased 4 - 6 armor, this
can strike at the second round, and with the starting infantry, can cause a lot of damage to a weakly defended german attack,there is a great distance between germany and russia, therefore if you lose your frontline infantry, you end up with a see-saw effect, germany pour’s armor forward, it takes 2 turn’s to get to russia, by that time russia has deployed large infantry, and armor to repel the invasion,

personally, i think that if russia has not been taken by round 5, you would need japan

also if the u.k. play’s patiently and send’s it’s airforce to russia, you definetely need bomber’s to take russia

[d142]

you also need to repel an attack at norway or finland, buy a cruiser and a destroyer to reinforce your starting fleet,
use your submarines, keep your fleet together, control the north atlantic and north sea, this should repel a amphibious assault at norway, keep 4-5 infantry at norway, and if you have a fighter, put 1 at norway,  use the transport at s.z. 5 to move infantry from germany to norway,

[Pvt.Patterson]

I think ive got it.
I get by with a little help form my friends!  :-D The I-ties. And a push by japan though china and India -> Persia

G1 2 bomers 1 if 1 art
G2 tanks! mabye fighter?
G3 Tanks!
G4 Navey… all of it save a few infanty.

I1 Transport Inf
T2 Tanks and few inf
T3 If and ships

G1 Take karelia with fighters and inf /art Cur bombard.
    Camp 3 tanks in East poland with 1-2 in
    Take baltic with inf and art. - you just have to take it.
    Take ukraine with 2 tanks 3 inf 1 art From Afrika
    Take BB/tran with subs /bomber
    If you want sink DD in chanel with Sub
    Noncom 2 tanks to karelia
G2  Attack Cacuas with 5 tanks 3 inf 1 art all fighter left 2-4 and 3 bombers.
      Archangel? if weak.
      Eastern ukraine if possible to.
G3  Afrika!

I1  Move forward towards caucuas with everything you can. No Egypt yet.
I2  Attack Caucuas with 2 tanks 5 if 1 art 1 fighter 2 CA and 1 BB
I3  Afrika !!!

J2  India
J3  Persia
      If possible Afrika!

You will have 4 tanks in karelia Two made end turn G2, 2 non com 1Art if rusains did not take it back R1
Russia can have a max of 13 inf and 1 tank and 1 Art in Caucuas turn one but they loss the ablity to take back karelia If they head north with some or hold back in reinforcing Caucuas Take It if they have up to 12 Inf Or less Inf and a few tanks or art. Just see how it goes.

If this gamble works the Russians would only be able to produce a total of 16 units by turn R2 and if they went with offisive units in R1 they my have lesslike 13. This means that you dont have to swim through inf and oyu get a clear and decisive taking of the Caucuas in I2. Then the Ities and Japan can Start tag teaming Moscow and Germany can work on the growing UK US threat and take some of its boots back towards the coast leaving enought tanks abd boots to mop up moscow once the Japanesse and the I-Ties get done with it.

You also have 3 Bombers and 2-4 Fighters for german coast clearing in G3

Japan can step in with Fighters to Caucuas and a india and china thrust which could reach a weakend russia by 4 and 5 respectivly. or hold in J4 Kazakh and wait and attack moscow J5 with the left overs form India and China + a few fighters. Also a IC in India. ?? Can you place IC’s in newly aquired territoies??

[d142]

the drawback to taking karelia at the first round is that if you lose more than 2 unit’s, you would have to lose some fighter’s to take the territory, and it is more than possible that an attack would be unsuccessful, or it would be taken straight back from germany, if you take the baltic states you can use a ground offensive to take karelia, there is also the option to transport to finland, and wait until round 2 or 3, when there is enough of a force to have a serious go at karelia, that would serve your airforce more, aswell as the ground unit’s, it would give a greater foothold at the territory, and save some of the valuable aircraft,
( not the best option if the defender has radar )

karelia can be tricky, although to take karelia at g1 can stop a build up of unit’s, and push russia further back, there are not enough unit’s to make certain of victory at all point’s at the eastern front at the first round, and if the attack’s are weak, a strategy could head for disaster, with only 2 artillery to back up 10 infantry, the odd’s of a sweep of all opposing border’s is not guaranteed, if you go too far, you open up territories with more infantry, and the farther you go the more unit’s you lose, i.e. karelia and ukraine, both of those territories need a lot of unit’s to take and hold out against a  counter strike

[d142]

to place an i.c. at a captured territory, you would have to hold that territory for 1 round,

[Pvt.Patterson]

The point of that attack is to make it so that if you opponent wants to take karil back they will loose the causuas G2 and I2 and even if he reinforces caucuas he will stand a good chance at losing it for good in I2 or face an attack form the north on Moscow.
You would also have japan on the scene by J4 and J5

[d142]

a first round attack at karelia with at most 4 fighter’s, 1 bomber, 1 infantry and 1 artillery, against 5 infantry, and 1 artillery, would hit at best 4 at the first round,
if all aircraft survive the anti-aircraft gun, with the defender hitting 1-2 at least, that mean’s that the land unit’s, or 2 aircraft would have to go,
if you lose the ground unit’s you can not take control of the territory, a second round could bring more losses, with no way of reinforcing karelia until g2, are 2 i.p.c. worth all that airforce, with russia left with 4 infantry and 1 armor, they could easily take out 1-2 ground unit’s, at the next round

after russia 1, the axis could face 7 infantry, 2 armor, 1 fighter at the caucasus, with reinforcement and non combat movement, for the 41’ scenario there is no nescessity for russia to reinforce at russia, russia can send all it’s unit’s to the front, to slow down the german attack, and build at russia at round 2, if the caucasus has not been captured by round 2,
that would mean that the axis had lost a lot of unit’s there, and if that happen’s you have to rebuild from germany again,

if you give the russia player 1 easy round without taking territories or by losing unit’s for a hopeless battle, and set germany back 1-2 round’s, that is all the initiative that the russia player need’s to counter strike, if russia get a foot hold at a gray territory, it is as good as game over for germany,

if you give the initiative to the russia player they can easily send 1-2 infantry, 1-2 armor east to stop a japan attack,
if russia take poland and romania/bulgaria that almost gives russia twice as much i.p.c. as germany, russia can then pick off the german unit’s that are sent east, and with less i.p.c. to spend, france and scandanavia would fall within 2-3- turn’s

i think that an all out attack at the eastern front is a bridge too far, and far too risky,

the german player need’s to constantly attack at the red territories, or at least stop a russia advance,

if the strategy work’s for you, post it here

[d142]

the total force that could attack karelia, at round 1 would be 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 3 fighter’s, and 1 bomber, karelia could be taken with all the land unit’s, that could mean losing all the aircraft, if land unit’s are selected as losses, there is no way that karelia can be held from a determined russia player, i think that 4 land unit’s at karelia would be a deterrant to the russia player and the u.k. player to attack at round 2, there is a good chance that the attack could be a great success, there is also a chance that it could end with all aircraft and some land unit’s lost

[Pin]

remember you can also blitz 2 armors from poland to Karelia in NCM. Karelia can be taken so strong it cant be retaken on R1, but this approach sacrifices too much other attacks for my likings,  but i know several who uses this strat effectivly :)

[d142]

the rulebook states that a player may blitz only as part of a combat move,
from my experience of playing revised, you can not reinforce a captured territory until the next round,
the AA50 rulebook is not clear of this issue, it states that ‘land units can move into any friendly territories’

it can be used effectively if you sacrifice aircraft and a hold back by not creating a second offensive toward the caucasus until round 2-3

[axis_roll]

Pin is not describing a ‘blitz’ move.  He is advocating a non-combat move after Baltic states and Karelia have been conquered from Poland to Karelia.

That move is 100% legal.

[d142]

i was not aware of the AA50 rule of reinforcing captured territories,

yeah that is a legal move, the rulebook does not contradict that statement

[gebs99]

let me see if i get this. Its legal to reinforce a territory (with land units) you just captured on the combat phase, during your non combat phase with units that didnt move before. FOr example if russia attacks finland and takes it with only soldiers, then on tis NCM russia could move into Finland any tanks that are within 2 spaces?

[axis_roll]

@gebs99:

let me see if i get this. Its legal to reinforce a territory (with land units) you just captured on the combat phase, during your non combat phase with units that didnt move before. FOr example if russia attacks finland and takes it with only soldiers, then on tis NCM russia could move into Finland any tanks that are within 2 spaces?

Certainly.

This has been allowed in every version of A&A from classic to 2nd edition to Revised and now AA50.

[Pvt.Patterson]

The point of the Karila G1 and Caucuas G2 is to cripple Russia by R2, Its a bit of a gamble but it you get the UK BB/ tran they have no ability to land in B1 and by B2 you should have a large stack of tanks in Berlin plus 3 bombers and 2-4 fighters if you were lucky with the karil attack. Russia will not have produce more than 16 units by the end of R2 and if you hold the cuasuas in G2 or I2 they will only be able to produce 6 units in R3 which is really hard to mount an effective counter attack with in R4

With Russia in shambles by G3 they can start to look towards the UK US threat and leave Moscow for I-ties and Japan well leaving a small mop up force of whats left of your infantry and 6 or so tanks because the fighters and bombers can always fly back for the last blow…

The I-ties could throw 4 inft and at Moscow a turn to weaken it in I3, I4 but not in full attack pulling back once the inf are lost and replace them with ones made in causuas if it is held in R3 well building up an Afrika army

I would suggest in that in J5 and I5 a sapping of Moscow to weaken it for taking in Germany in G6 because the extra 6 IPC would come in handy for Germans war effort against UK US and if they don’t have to commit huge force but only administer the knock out punch most of their forces could be in the Atlantic and France and Afrika and not Russia.

[d142]

@axis_roll:

@gebs99:

let me see if i get this. Its legal to reinforce a territory (with land units) you just captured on the combat phase, during your non combat phase with units that didnt move before. FOr example if russia attacks finland and takes it with only soldiers, then on tis NCM russia could move into Finland any tanks that are within 2 spaces?

Certainly.

This has been allowed in every version of A&A from classic to 2nd edition to Revised and now AA50.

after reading the revised rulebook, it is almost exactly word for word, the same rule’s for non-combat move,
i could have been confused, because i think that i read that all movement take’s place at the same time

[Capt. Winters]

Pvt. Patterson,
The only problem with your plan is a high chance of failure if your opponent has any idea what they are doing.  Now that doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but your gamble will cost the entire game.

I’m looking for a direct and effective push against the Russians without the Hail Mary, or in your case two Hail Marys (G1 Karelia, G2 Caucasus?? Come on!).  The Russian opponents I’m facing are buying 6 ARM Round one and mixing ART and ARM Round 2.  The England opponents I’m facing will have a drop off in Poland, splitting your line from reinforcememnts and waking the Bear with a roar.  They’d be lighting a victory cigar after you pull that G1 even if you win.

I’m planning how Germany will be strong even if the attack on Moscow Round 5 doesn’t work.

Germany is the most unforgiving and demanding player on the board.  No half-court shots here.

[bongaroo]

I just finished a G2 and secured my 3 NO’s.  Russia deadzoned and has a lot of Infantry looking at me.  My Inf is soft but backed up by a lot of ARM.  I’m not sure how this will go but I feel that I need to hurt Russia as much as possible before I just start huddling up and waiting on Japan.

The US is dropping ships in the Pacific so I’m curious to see how this will all play out.