Heavy Bomber Rebalance

[wodan46]

Let’s face it, Heavy Bombers are brokenly overpowered, to the point that if one of the 4 larger powers gets it, they can crush the others.  Not surprising when you have a unit that has more Attack per IPC than a Tank, but has 6 movement can quickly retreat out of frontline territories.

So here’s a simple fix.  Heavy Bombers roll 2 dice, and pick the better one.

Attack: 67%(regular Bomber), 89%(new Heavy Bomber), 67%2(old Heavy Bomber)
SBR: 3.5 IPCs average(regular Bomber), 5 IPCs average(new heavy Bomber), 7 IPCs average(old Heavy Bomber)

So, with the fix, instead of Bombers getting a 100% boost to Attack and SBR, they get a 32% boost to Attack and a 42% boost to SBR.  This is still quite powerful, but isn’t an instant I WIN to the person who gets it.

*Excluding AA, which applies same penalty to all of them

[Jennifer]

I think Paratroopers is more powerful than Heavy Bombers.  I also don’t think Heavy Bombers need a “fix” they just turn the game from naval war to paratroopers and bomber war.

If you needed to “fix” them then the only solution I could think of is to raise the price of bombers to 15 IPC again.

or

Give Battleships AA Gun abilities (which is my personal favorite.  I think they should have them anyway, it would help justify the immense cost of buying the darn things!)

[wodan46]

@Cmdr:

Give Battleships AA Gun abilities (which is my personal favorite.  I think they should have them anyway, it would help justify the immense cost of buying the darn things!)

It should probably be the Cruiser getting those abilities

Speaking of, I think the the Battleships and Cruisers could both use 2 IPCs off their cost.

[wodan46]

@Cmdr:

I think Paratroopers is more powerful than Heavy Bombers.  I also don’t think Heavy Bombers need a “fix” they just turn the game from naval war to paratroopers and bomber war.

No, they turn the game into a curb stomp, where the team with heavy bombers crushes the team without them.  That is what every match featuring them has reported.  Paratroopers are powerful, but they are far less likely to cause curb stomps.  They give you super transports that allow for crazy attacks, but they don’t give you a brokenly overpowered attack.

[Jennifer]

Check my game against A44.  He had heavy bombers long before I got them and America still stomped Japan like a bad nicotine habit.

BTW, I said to give the AA to battleships because they are rarer on the board, more expensive and that’s the unit AA Gun abilities has been play tested in for AAR: Enhanced and AA50: Enhanced.

Putting them on the cruiser might make the cruiser too powerful.  Though, I would agree that 10 IPC would be a much more appropriate cost for the cruiser given that it is basically the navy equivalent of a fighter.

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Paratroopers allow you to liberate islands without risking transports which means you don’t have to build a surface fleet even if the enemy has heavy bombers!

I’ve used them successfully to get NOs for Italy (using German paratroopers that is), to take Japan, to liberate the South Pacific and to take England.  It’s amazingly powerful those little buggers!  When defending against them you really have to look at the board and factor in multiple avenues the enemy could attack (all you need is a territory you control to stop them, but a movement of 6 or 8 is really flexible!)

[wodan46]

@Cmdr:

Check my game against A44.  He had heavy bombers long before I got them and America still stomped Japan like a bad nicotine habit.

Where do you find these games.  Also, how do you get the battlemap stuff or whatever you call it working?

@Cmdr:

Putting them on the cruiser might make the cruiser too powerful.  Though, I would agree that 10 IPC would be a much more appropriate cost for the cruiser given that it is basically the navy equivalent of a fighter.

I’ve also heard people suggest giving the Cruiser 3 Movement instead.

@Cmdr:

Paratroopers allow you to liberate islands without risking transports which means you don’t have to build a surface fleet even if the enemy has heavy bombers!

I’ve used them successfully to get NOs for Italy (using German paratroopers that is), to take Japan, to liberate the South Pacific and to take England.  It’s amazingly powerful those little buggers!  When defending against them you really have to look at the board and factor in multiple avenues the enemy could attack (all you need is a territory you control to stop them, but a movement of 6 or 8 is really flexible!)

However, those allow you to take territories by being sneaky, whereas Heavy Bombers allow you to take territories with overwhelming firepower.

Of course, the true nightmare is Heavy Bombers loaded with Paratroopers.

[Umgar]

That is a pretty elegant solution if you think Bombers need to be nerfed.

I’m not convinced it’s needed though, I need to play more AA50 games before I make up my mind on technology. Based on my initial plays I see some techs that are weak compared to others, but none that stand out as a clear-cut best. It all comes down to which power rolls it and what stage of the game. Many of the techs have the ability to be game-shaking provided they are rolled by the right power at the right time.

In the last game I played the German player rolled radar on turn 1 o.O  Let me tell you it is a lot harder to slow the German advance when the allies cannot IPC-bomb the Germans every turn.

Similarly, have you played a game where Japan got jet fighters on turn 1? Almost makes you want to concede right there and start a new game…

[wodan46]

If you checked, I listed Jet Fighters for Japan as one of the “I win unless there is a major reversal, such as you getting a very good tech, die roll, or gambit”

The full list of things that qualify, besides Heavy Bombers for the top 4 players:

Germany: Mechanized Infantry(bum rush), Improved Manufacturing(stops SBR and makes Karelia/Caucasus a unit pumper).
Japan: Jet Fighter(9 highly mobile Fighters hitting 33% harder), Long Range(or they move 50% farther)
USA: Long Range Aircraft(Bombers built on the West Coast can bomb Japan immediately)

[Jennifer]

The games are in the games section of the site.

Battlemap just requires the download, you don’t have to install it.  Open the program, go to file, open and select the file.

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Jets are good, but not really powerful.  I like that they attack at 4 instead of defend at 5 now because it makes more sense.

Heavy bombers are good, but not over powered.  First off, you have to get them in range, secondly, they are now in the range of the enemy too, third, they cannot be everywhere, you are either using them against the enemy in Europe/Atlantic; Africa/Atlantic/Indian Ocean or Asia/Pacific.

Lastly, as I mentioned, AA Guns on Battleships would be wise and able to reduce the impact of all aircraft and, let’s face it, every nation that has a navy except Germany starts with a battleship, so it’s an even keel. (Pun intended.)

[murraymoto]

adding interceptors to factory defense lineup after the AA guns fire can help to balance the heavy bomber threat to production centers.