Allied strategy (for USA)

[Jennifer]

First off, I apologize, I did not read through EVERYONE’S responses in depth, short on time.

However, I would like to mention (sorry if this is a repeat) that any American strategy needs to keep in mind fleet assets.  It’s too easy for America to get bogged down in transports and not realize they are short on warships.  I know, I know, “but America does not need to get into a naval fist fight.”  Sure, against most opponents, you won’t ever engage anything stronger than an Aircraft Carrier, 2 Submarines, 2 Fighters, Transport and Destroyer with the American or British fleet.

Now, imagine this.  Japan has been slowly assembling a navy for the past 10 rounds or so.  Nothing big, just a ship here or there, almost unnoticeable really.  Sure, you see it, sure you know the ships are there, but you really don’t see how they are helping the Axis and you are almost glad they are putting boats in the water instead of tanks on the land. (Though, to be honest, they do seem to have a lot of tanks anyway.)

Suddenly you see the Japanese fleet come down to SZ 27 or 28 (S. African coast) and out to SZ 42 (next to the sea zone containing New Zealand.)  You realize that this fleet can unify in the South Atlantic and take Brazil.  Now, of course, Brazil isn’t a huge prize, but it suddenly dawns on you that yes, you have a 150-200 IPC fleet, but 80-96 IPC of that is in transports! (10-12 which is where I see a lot of Americans get too) and you cannot use that against a fleet with 3 carriers, 6 fighters, 2 battleships, 12 submarines, destroyer and transport (with 1 infantry on it.)

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The scenario presented may never arise in your game.  I’ve only seen it played against me a few times and I have in turn only used it a few times.  But that does not mean you won’t get caught by it.

I admit, the 3rd carrier is often a tip off that Japan’s going to try something sneaky.  But it could also just be that Japan needs the extra protection in SZ 34 and wanted some air power to take Australia/New Zealand just recently as well.

Remember, a Japanese fleet in SZ 34 and in SZ 41 (New Zealand) is not an uncommon sight by any stretch of the imagination!  So it can easily be shrugged off as normal Japanese trouble making.

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Moral of the story:  You can easily get over-whelmed by the Japanese fleet in the late game part of the game.  It’s often a wise idea for Japan to make an attack like this if Russia is under siege and Germany needs a little relief.  The Japanese fleet might be all but useless at the time (say Japan has 3 ICs in mainland Asia pumping out 9 units, you really don’t have assets at any point to get 17 useful assets anyway.  17 Infantry are 51 IPC, that’s almost a paycheck and then you don’t have any tanks in that mix, far better to get 9 tanks 45 IPC and move your fleet to stop the allies, sometimes.)

Note, this is not a specific counter to just this strategy, it is a thought I think all American strategies MUST be aware of.  BTW, the same works for America by the way, no-one said you have to have a transport train of 10-12 transports carrying 20-24 units across, you can easily get by with 6 (and 6 ground units a round) using the remainder for planes and boats, then just slip around the south end of S. America to really get Japan angry!

[eumaies]

bigchris,

i see what you’re getting at.  I think round 3 may be a bit late for your first landing, depending on russia’s situation.  I find earlier drop offs around karelia or archangel are sometimes necessary just to keep her alive.  planes to land in algeria and hit the german fleet are a worthwhile strategy, but i’m not sure how it would work against a heavy push on russia.

other thoughts:

1. if you are taking the algerian troops back (Even 2 of them) than you can have enough troops for 4 transports on turn 1. The real trouble is if germany landed a bomber in western europe than you probably don’t want to build two undefended transports on turn 1.  If he didn’t, though you can be ready to hit norway with 8.

2. in general, if you’re playing around in the atlantic with just 1 battleship and lots of transports, the german air might eventually kill your fleet.  this isn’t a bad thing, as they would lose lots of planes, but something to keep in mind and plan for… if there’s a turn you can’t afford to die, stay out of range of large quantities of planes.

[bigchris]

@eumaies:

I think round 3 may be a bit late for your first landing, depending on russia’s situation.

yes, good point.  USA3 is the fastest i can get a troop pipeline setup, and i’d like to drop off UK troops when they can get backups so germany can’t kill them.  i suppose i could recalculate for USA2, however, the best that could do is put 4 extra units units on USA2 and 4 fewer units on USA3.

in my games, i’ve found germany starts playing defensively with all those transports in the water and starts defending WEU, SEU, and GER instead of making a mad dash to russia.

if germany does go all out russia, at least all the units in algeria can switch gears and unload in round 2, which is the best i can do with USA anyways.

@Cmdr:

Moral of the story:  You can easily get over-whelmed by the Japanese fleet in the late game part of the game.  Note, this is not a specific counter to just this strategy, it is a thought I think all American strategies MUST be aware of.

good point.

[eumaies]

yeah i don’t think the usa has to necessarily rush, but the uk might.  in general, if germany has to divert attention to kill some uk landed troops, then that’s at least saving russia from all that attention.

[AxisOfEvil]

A few points on the OP. first off, it isnt a bad strategy, but there are some trouble spots:

Axis counters –

1) When I am axis, you should be very wary about landing in alegeria rd1. I like buying a German bomber in rd1. this alone should make an African landing r1 too risky. I can hit sz12 with 4 fighters from france. 1 fighter 1 bomber from Libya. 1 bomber from germany. This typically wipes out the allied navy of 4 trans, 1 dd, 1 bb with a lose of ~ 3 fighters. Well worthit for Germany. UK, will have trouble replacing capital ships, and will never be able to replace the battleship. I have also been known to do things like move the baltic fleet to sz7, move the med fleet west time to time. All these things should deter a r1 landing in africa.

2) Your strat never calls for buying capital ships. As I have said above, i buy an extra bomber with germany, and can buy a few more fighters as well. this air force will make shuttling troops to europe tough on you.

3) Ignoring africa is a mistake IMO. The Continent of Africa is worth 11 ipcs. If the allies want it, the Axis cant stop them from owning africa. So you are sacrificing a 22 ipc swing in your games, because you are hoping for a quick knock-out punch on berlin by r6. You wont knock-out a good axis player by round 6. ESPECIALLY if you are allowing Germany to earn 50+ ipcs/turn.

4)  If you move into EE on r5 on my germany with force, i gurantee you can can take that force out. There is no way you get an uncounterable force into EE on me by r5.

USA alternatives –

The US can choose to shuttle troops to the North or the South in the Atlantic. It depends on what you want to accomplish, and how things in africa are going. I do think that ultimately, its on the US to ensure africa is secure. Sometimes that wont take much effort, maybe the first three rounds you will have enough gear in africa to secure it for the allies. So at that point you can switch to going north if you prefer. However, I have found games in which the USA bases it operation in north africa/med, and the UK bases is its opertaion in Karelia/Baltic, this puts max pressure on germany. If you have both the US and UK in the north, you certainly have 1-2 punch potentially that makes Germany have to guard WE/Berlin/EE. However, if you have US navy in the med, Now Germany has to worry about SE/Baltics/UKR as well. Now Germany cannot do much but turtle, cuz they cant send alot of force east to russia without leaving themself open to landings in all of their originally owned territory. And SE is big. The germans cannot afford to let the amercians hold that more than one turn. If the US gets to build 6 tanks there, Germany’s days are numbered.

[bigchris]

thanks, AxisOfEvil!  that’s exactly the kind of feedback i was looking for.

[Jennifer]

Axis has a point, SZ 12 is hardly a safe zone.

I keep forgetting how much damage just the German air force can do to the Allies on Germany 2 in SZ 12 because I almost always have the German Battleship and Transport from SZ 14 in SZ 13. (I just like sinking the Battleship without loss there, call me strange.)

[losttribe04]

As the Allies I stage the UK and US and move the Russian sub to the NW corner of England and I have the US add a capital ship like a loaded CV or a BB.

Once that happens I can decide where I want an allied foothold.  (Norway, France, Africa).

But all of this depends on 1) the skill level of the Axis player(s), 2) Where Germany decides to invest assets, 3) What Japan does the first move.

You can’t have a cookie cutter method to handle the Axis or vise-versa.

If you want a full proof plan your not going to find one (you know that your not stupid). What you can do is make a mental flow-chart on how to handle specific events.

Examples for the US would include: Did Germany decide to go to Africa?  Did the UK do any prep work for a KJF game? Does Japan attack Pearl?

The US player has one of the biggest advantages of all.  They get a limited picture of whats moving where.  You need to find a way that can work for you.  Then you can use the US’s second biggest weapon the federal reserve.

LT

[Granada]

oh well, i have just tried the strategy against an experienced player and i was destroyed terribly. SZ 12 IS NOT A SAFE PLACE R1. You would not have 2 UK trans in most cases. I played against bid 9 so there was one sub more from the start and an AC on G1. Any kind of convoying system is necessary for US but next time i am going to make sure that i control the atlantic solidly first. I made some childish mistakes too, but if the germans put an effort to contesting the atlantic you cannot just build trannies. You have to sink their ships first and you have to do it quick and as cheap as possible.

Btw if the convoying system is to work smoothly you need for US actually three sets of transport ships, two wount do.

[Nix]

two will do if you set it up from ECA to UK, UK to Norway, and build troops in EUS and move them to ECA,

So you need to be 1 turn ahead with your soldier buys.

[bigchris]

@Granada:

I played against bid 9 so there was one sub more from the start and an AC on G1. Any kind of convoying system is necessary for US but next time i am going to make sure that i control the atlantic solidly first.

sorry for your loss, <granada>.  in the strategy i outlined, i use planes to clear the atlantic.  if the germans buy an AC and use their bid money for a sub, then planes alone won’t get the job done, and my original plan would fail horribly.  USA and UK would each need to buy capital ships on round 1 (perhaps a CV each) to counter.

this would delay the troop pipeline to europe by at least one round, but russia would have more time thanks to the german purchases.  also, the allies can’t afford to ignore africa.</granada>

[AxisOfEvil]

@Granada:

oh well, i have just tried the strategy against an experienced player and i was destroyed terribly. SZ 12 IS NOT A SAFE PLACE R1. You would not have 2 UK trans in most cases. I played against bid 9 so there was one sub more from the start and an AC on G1. Any kind of convoying system is necessary for US but next time i am going to make sure that i control the atlantic solidly first. I made some childish mistakes too, but if the germans put an effort to contesting the atlantic you cannot just build trannies. You have to sink their ships first and you have to do it quick and as cheap as possible.

Btw if the convoying system is to work smoothly you need for US actually three sets of transport ships, two wount do.

Early allied shipping losses can really hamper your game plan. It is always vital to protect not only the transports, but that British battleship! If Germany invests 24 ipcs in the water, you will have to wait a round or two to be safe, however, thats all right, as Germany took away 24 ipcs from the Russian campaign, you have time to get going.