Newbie here

[Romulus]

@Krieghund:

@a44bigdog:

@risk:

and air craft can attack submarines only if there is a destroyer present, correct? does that mean that they can attack them even if they are submerged??

Submarines cannot submerge when a destroyer is present. So they can be target by air because a destroyer is present or if no destroyer is present they may submerge. Once they submerge they are placed on the game board on their side. They no longer are considered to be part of any battle once they submerge. They cannot fire at units and cannot be taken as hits.  In this state they act as if they do not exist. At the end of the non combat move stage they are then turned upright and considered to have surfaced.

You’re carrying a little baggage from Revised here, A44bigdog.  When a sub submerges, it is simply removed from the battle board and placed back on the gameboard.  There is no need to turn it on its side or right it again at the end of noncombat movement.

If one is using the battleboard!
However after few games even my new friends, which are playing Anniversary with my playgroup for the first times, are used to resolve the battle “on the map”. To keep track of the submerged subs it is useful to turn them on their side if the unit are not moved to the battleboard. (IMHO using the battleboard add a lot of overhead to an already long game, we use the battleboard only in really big battles)
Sure, the rule are just as you say Krieghund but for a newbie it is also interesting to have such information! :)

[Krieghund]

Good point, Romulus.  If you’re not using the battle board, turning subs on their sides is still a good way to represent submerging.  However, you can right them immediately after the battle rather than waiting until after noncombat movement.

[risk 2210]

thanks everyone for their help, this is all really helpful.

i still use the battle board but sure enough once i get used to the game a bit more i might ditch it

a couple more questions if i may…

do AA guns fire on air craft passing over a territory that contains the AA if the final destination of that aircraft is not that territory? for example bombers flying from Britain to Germany passing over France or north western Europe would they be fired upon if there were AA guns in western or northwestern Europe? as well as the fire they recieve from theGerman AA guns?? also do these guns fire on the aircraft on their way back to Britain? i.e. in the non combat phase of the air crafts movement?

and something that was also bugging me was the fact that a comber leaving the U.K could potentially bomb targets in North Africa and land in Egypt provided that it does not fly over Europe and instead fly over the sea zones in the atlantic ocean, around Gibralter, and through the mediteranian, even tho in real life this would actually increase the distance that the bomber would have to travel because its not flying in a straight line over Europe, yet in this game because of the density of territories in Europe you cant actually fly over Europe because it would be more than 6 territories to attack and land, where as because the sea zones are bigger in size on the map, the bomber can fly over the ocean and reach its target. not thsi seems a bit odd, apart from the fact that no way a WW2 bomber could fly from Britain to North Africa uninterrupted it also doesnt make sense that it could take a “short cut” by flying around europe rather than over it, is there a rule that says you cant do this, or that planes must fly in the straightest line possible or something, or is this simply a “feature” of the game which doesnt quite sit right with me?

[Krieghund]

@risk:

do AA guns fire on air craft passing over a territory that contains the AA if the final destination of that aircraft is not that territory? for example bombers flying from Britain to Germany passing over France or north western Europe would they be fired upon if there were AA guns in western or northwestern Europe? as well as the fire they recieve from theGerman AA guns?? also do these guns fire on the aircraft on their way back to Britain? i.e. in the non combat phase of the air crafts movement?

AA guns only fire on planes that are actually attacking the territory that the gun is in.  They don’t fire on planes that are simply passing over them in either combat or noncombat movement.  This is a change from previous A&A games.

@risk:

and something that was also bugging me was the fact that a comber leaving the U.K could potentially bomb targets in North Africa and land in Egypt provided that it does not fly over Europe and instead fly over the sea zones in the atlantic ocean, around Gibralter, and through the mediteranian, even tho in real life this would actually increase the distance that the bomber would have to travel because its not flying in a straight line over Europe, yet in this game because of the density of territories in Europe you cant actually fly over Europe because it would be more than 6 territories to attack and land, where as because the sea zones are bigger in size on the map, the bomber can fly over the ocean and reach its target. not thsi seems a bit odd, apart from the fact that no way a WW2 bomber could fly from Britain to North Africa uninterrupted it also doesnt make sense that it could take a “short cut” by flying around europe rather than over it, is there a rule that says you cant do this, or that planes must fly in the straightest line possible or something, or is this simply a “feature” of the game which doesnt quite sit right with me?

It’s just a feature of the game.

[kendric]

Welcome to this cool game. Just wanted to point out something you said that was slightly incorrect. Not sure if you meant it this way but you said:
basically, correct me if im wrong, but teh “ship bombardment” works more or less like he “sneak attack” of the submarine, right? in that they get to fire a shot and then withdraw from battle, is this correct.

Thats not exactly how subs work. Subs fire a sneak attack(assuming no destroyer) and then the defenders may take losses, but then the defenders do get to fire back. Then you can either have the subs stay and fight another round, or submerge(if no destroyers).
Just thought I would point that out.
Subs cant hit air btw if you hadn’t seen that rule.

[risk 2210]

@kendric:

Welcome to this cool game. Just wanted to point out something you said that was slightly incorrect. Not sure if you meant it this way but you said:
basically, correct me if im wrong, but teh “ship bombardment” works more or less like he “sneak attack” of the submarine, right? in that they get to fire a shot and then withdraw from battle, is this correct.

Thats not exactly how subs work. Subs fire a sneak attack(assuming no destroyer) and then the defenders may take losses, but then the defenders do get to fire back. Then you can either have the subs stay and fight another round, or submerge(if no destroyers).
Just thought I would point that out.
Subs cant hit air btw if you hadn’t seen that rule.

oh ok cool so theyre sneak atack is basically their first round fire, i.e. if they choose to stay they dont get an additional roll of the dice as a part of the first round of the combat? is this right?

also while were on the topic do subs get to choose to submerge and then resurface during the same battle, and do this as many times as they like (provided that they are fired upon everytim,e they re-surface) or are they simply out of the battle once they submerge fort the first time?

and thanks for pointing out the thing about subs not hitting air i missed that…

another question, when rolling for techs and you have several tokens and roll several dice, do you get to one breakthrough per every 6 you roll, or just one breakthrough each turn based regardless of how many 6’s you get? and ofcourse you discard all your token when you get breakthroughs yes?

much appreciate the help

[a44bigdog]

If a sub has first strike capability it conducts its attacks first each round of combat and any ship it hits is destroyed and does not get a defensive fire roll.

When a sub submerges that is it for that battle. That is why I explained it the way I did even if it is a hold over from Revised.

You only get 1 break though per turn no matter how many 6s come up. And when you do achieve a breakthrough all of your research tokens must be handed back in.

[risk 2210]

ah ok i think it all makes sense…so just to clarify, subs dont roll twice on the first round of fire, correct? their first round of fire IS their “surprise attack” and then they can either choose to withdraw or stay and recieve enemy fire, is this right? so potentially you can go around doing sneak attacks with subs and withdraw them without any chance damage unless of course enemy destroyer is present….

or do they still remain to cop enemy fire from remaining enemy vessels after their sneak attack?? i.e. their sneak attack takes out a couple of enemy vessls and then the remaining get to fire at least one round at the sub before they have a chance to submerge?

sorry for all the questions aspects of this game are very detailed and confusing :(

[a44bigdog]

at the beginning of each round of combat that a destroyer is not present subs may either submerge or conduct their “first strike” this includes defending submarines as well. The decision to submerge is made before any dice are rolled.

[risk 2210]

umm…by “at the beggining of EACH ROUND” do you mean subs get to do their “first strike” as many times as possible? and by “first strike” do you mean the “sneak attack”, therefore the “sneak attack” happens everytime a sub rolls the die and not only on their first round of fire?

this is getting more confusing i thought the sneak atack was only the sub’s first attack and ater that it would just attack and defend like any other unit…

[a44bigdog]

every round of combat that an enemy destroyer is not present all submarines roll first before any other units. Whatever ships are determined to be casualties are removed immediately.

[risk 2210]

ahh i see…ok this is another thing that i understood differently, i thought that the ‘sneak attack’ was a special attack that only happened ONCE during the entire battle…wow this makes subs very powerful. can anyone else verify that this is the case?

sorry a44 its not that i dont believe you its just more reasuring when other people also chip in :D

[Panther]

@risk:

ahh i see…ok this is another thing that i understood differently, i thought that the ‘sneak attack’ was a special attack that only happened ONCE during the entire battle…wow this makes subs very powerful. can anyone else verify that this is the case?

sorry a44 its not that i dont believe you its just more reasuring when other people also chip in :D

Just take a look at the official FAQ/Errata at

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=ah/article/ah20081212

It’s the last question in the “Submarines” section:
Q. Does a submarine’s Surprise Strike occur in every round of combat if there are no enemy destroyers, or only the first round?
A. Submarines get a Surprise Strike in every round of combat in which no enemy destroyers are present.

[risk 2210]

wow great thank you…

another question which has come up is, when yuo are constructing fighters and carriers, do you get to place the fighters immediately on the carriers provided there s enough production capacity where you are building or do ou place the aorcraft on land and then move them onto the carrier later?

[Romulus]

Fighters never move during mobilization phase.

Tou may build fighters on a your own Carrier that is in a sea zone adjacent to the territory that contains the IC.

The Carrier may be a new one or an existing one moved in that sea zone during the turn.

You can not build fnew ighters on friendly powers carriers.

You ay also place existing fighters on newly built carriers. In the non combat move fighters are moved in a sea zone adjacent to the IC’s territory and, if a carrier has been purchased in that turn, you may declare that it will be deployed in those sea zone allowing the fighters to legally land in the sea zone.

[risk 2210]

i see…is that even if they have to travel an extra square to get to the seazone?

[Romulus]

Traveling one extra space is never allowed.

Existing fighters must be able to reach a sea zone adjacent to the IC for landing on newly buil carriers.

Newly built fighters deployed on a carrier, present in a sea zone adjacent to an IC, are supposed built in the sea zone (as the ships are), so they are not placed in the territory and then moved. So they are not moving an extra space.

[risk 2210]

i see i see…

my god what grand game

[risk 2210]

its me again

ok so we played another game again today and we actually finished it, well to the point where the axis just gave up

and more questions came up again all of which i cant remember right now but a couple obvious one which i thought i would ask is

when yuor invading an island, say in the pacific, and the defending team has no ships but transport ships in the water territory sorounding that island, do you still need to send in a battle ship, cruiser etc to sink it and then wait for your next turn to make an invasion, or can you just ignore that transport ship (the logic being that they dont fire at you anyway and theyre empty) and just take your transport ships in and land without sending in “armed ships” to destroy the fleet of transports first?

also while were on trransports, in a sea battle can defending fleets take casualties on thir transports, even tho theyre not “part of the battle” because they dont fire? so what im saying is can you use them as cannon fodder for your more expensive ships? cause i always thought u just left them there on the map and when you lost all your other ships you automatically just loose the transports while my friend was argueing that they could be used to take hits in a naval battle, please clarify this for me, cheers.

[Krieghund]

@risk:

when yuor invading an island, say in the pacific, and the defending team has no ships but transport ships in the water territory sorounding that island, do you still need to send in a battle ship, cruiser etc to sink it and then wait for your next turn to make an invasion, or can you just ignore that transport ship (the logic being that they dont fire at you anyway and theyre empty) and just take your transport ships in and land without sending in “armed ships” to destroy the fleet of transports first?

You can ignore the transports and do the amphibious assault if you wish.  You can also choose to destroy the transports if you send combat units into the sea zone.  However, if you choose to destroy the transports, you forfeit any offshore bombardment support to the assault.

You don’t have to wait until your next turn to do the invasion even if there are defending surface warships (or just transports or subs you want to destroy).  All you have to do is defeat them with your naval force, then the amphibious assault can proceed on the same turn.

@risk:

also while were on trransports, in a sea battle can defending fleets take casualties on thir transports, even tho theyre not “part of the battle” because they dont fire? so what im saying is can you use them as cannon fodder for your more expensive ships? cause i always thought u just left them there on the map and when you lost all your other ships you automatically just loose the transports while my friend was argueing that they could be used to take hits in a naval battle, please clarify this for me, cheers.

Transports are part of the battle, and they can be taken as casualties.  However, they can only be taken as casualties when there is no other choice.  In other words, they can’t be used as cannon fodder.  Combat units protect transports, not the other way around.

The transports are in the battle just like everything else, only they don’t roll dice.  Since they don’t roll dice, they will never hit anything.  Any battle involving transports plays out like any other battle, with two exceptions.  One is that the transports may only be taken as a casualty when there is no other choice.  The other is that when it gets to the point where only one side is rolling dice, and it’s only a matter of time before the other side’s transports are destroyed, you can stop rolling dice and remove the transports.  The sole point of the defenseless transport rule is to keep you from rolling potentially endless dice until you kill all of the helpless transports.  This is the only time that transports are ever automatically destroyed.