Thank you.
Rule Questions for AA50
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1 situation with 2 different questions
Situation: On Germany’s first turn, he decides to build an Aircraft Carrier and land 2 Fighters on it causing him to have 1 Sub, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 Aircraft Carrier, and 2 Fighters. He also killed the UK Battleship/Transport and the nearby Destroyer, so the only units which can attack his fleet are the UK Bomber and the 2 UK Fighters.
First question: Can Russia build 1 Battleship and 1 Sub at Karelia and place them in the Baltic Sea, and then on Englands turn, when the UK Bomber and 2 Fighters attack, may the 2 Russian ships join in the Battle?
Second question: Russia builds 2 Aircraft Carriers at Karelia and place them in the Baltic Sea, and then suppose UK rolls tech and gets Long Range Aircraft. UK then lands his 3 Fighters (2 from England and 1 from Egypt) on the Russian Aircraft Carriers, and then on America’s turn, suppose that he also rolled tech and got Long Range Aircraft, and then he lands the Eastern US Fighter on the Russian Aircraft Carrier. On Germany’s turn, he may choose to attack or reatreat. If he attacks, what do the UK and US Fighters do? Do they defend, or are they just cargo with no defense. I realize that this is a contrived and unlikely situation, but something vaguely like this may happen because of Germany and Karelia sharing a sea zone.
Thanks for any help with these questions.
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Thanks for the timely response.
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I have 2 more questions.
Situation: Germany SBR/Rockets the Russian IC in Caucus for the maximum damage (8), then, on Rusia’s turn, Russia rolls for tech and gets the Improved Factory Production Tech.
Question 1: Russia only has to pay 4 IPCs to be able to produce 6 units at Caucus. Right?
Question 2: On Germany’s next turn, he SBR/Rockets Caucus for a total of 13 damage. How much is assesed against Caucus? 8? 10? 12? In other words, when you have the Improved Factory Production Tech, does it also raise the amount of damage which you enemies can do to you?
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Thank you for the answers. I have a couple more questions.
First situation: This is an actual situation from a game we just played. Germany has the Paratrooper technology and holds Karelia, and is really putting pressure on Russia. It is Germany’s turn, and he has 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers 8-) in Germany with 3 Infantry who whould really like to visit Moscow this turn. Also Germany has 2 Armor in Karelia, having just built them last turn. Moscow is only defended by 6 Infantry, and Belorussia has no defenders (but is still under Russian control). Russia also controls Archangelsk, Eastern Ukraine, Caucaus, and Kazahk with troops on each territory. I want to attack Moscow by blitzing my 2 Armor through Belorussia having my 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers with 3 Infantry join in with them in the attack on Moscow. I should be able to take it with these forces, but the Russian player says that the Paratroopers can not go past Belorussia due to the restriction on the Paratroopers flying behind the lines. What is correct?
Second Situation: This is a partially contrived situation to help me understand the rules better. If America had the Rocket tech, UK had the Radar tech, and Russia had no techs, but Karelia, controlled by Russia, contained an AA gun from each of the Allies, then I assume the following: that on Russia’s turn, he would not get the Archangelsk bonus, and on America’s turn he could fire Rockets at Germany from that AA gun, and if Germany attacks Karelia with air units, then the UK AA gun would fire at a “2” instead of the Russian AA gun firing at a “1”.
Now, if Germany takes Karelia, does the Radar AA gun still fire for Germany at a “2”, and can he now fire the Rocket AA gun at England or Moscow?
If Russia takes Karelia back, then do the AA guns revert back to each original owner, or does Russia now control all 3?
If Russia takes Karelia back during his Combat Move (of course), then may he move his AA gun to Belorussia during his non-combat move in the same turn?
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First situation: This is an actual situation from a game we just played. Germany has the Paratrooper technology and holds Karelia, and is really putting pressure on Russia. It is Germany’s turn, and he has 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers 8-) in Germany with 3 Infantry who whould really like to visit Moscow this turn. Also Germany has 2 Armor in Karelia, having just built them last turn. Moscow is only defended by 6 Infantry, and Belorussia has no defenders (but is still under Russian control). Russia also controls Archangelsk, Eastern Ukraine, Caucaus, and Kazahk with troops on each territory. I want to attack Moscow by blitzing my 2 Armor through Belorussia having my 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers with 3 Infantry join in with them in the attack on Moscow. I should be able to take it with these forces, but the Russian player says that the Paratroopers can not go past Belorussia due to the restriction on the Paratroopers flying behind the lines. What is correct?
Paratroopers must be dropped in the first enemy-controlled territory that is encountered on their bomber’s flight path, and the bombers must also attack that same territory. If Russia is insulated by Soviet-controlled territories, German paratroopers cannot be dropped there.
Second Situation: This is a partially contrived situation to help me understand the rules better. If America had the Rocket tech, UK had the Radar tech, and Russia had no techs, but Karelia, controlled by Russia, contained an AA gun from each of the Allies, then I assume the following: that on Russia’s turn, he would not get the Archangelsk bonus, and on America’s turn he could fire Rockets at Germany from that AA gun, and if Germany attacks Karelia with air units, then the UK AA gun would fire at a “2” instead of the Russian AA gun firing at a “1”.
Correct.
Now, if Germany takes Karelia, does the Radar AA gun still fire for Germany at a “2”, and can he now fire the Rocket AA gun at England or Moscow?
No. Germany has neither the Rockets nor Radar developments, so the captured AA guns are simply AA guns.
If Russia takes Karelia back, then do the AA guns revert back to each original owner, or does Russia now control all 3?
Russia controls all three, but, like Germany, cannot use the techs.
If Russia takes Karelia back during his Combat Move (of course), then may he move his AA gun to Belorussia during his non-combat move in the same turn?
No. The AA guns were involved in combat (even if they didn’t fire), so they may not move in Noncombat Movement.
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“Germany has the Paratrooper technology and holds Karelia, and is really putting pressure on Russia. It is Germany’s turn, and he has 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers in Germany with 3 Infantry who whould really like to visit Moscow this turn. Also Germany has 2 Armor in Karelia, having just built them last turn. Moscow is only defended by 6 Infantry, and Belorussia has no defenders (but is still under Russian control). Russia also controls Archangelsk, Eastern Ukraine, Caucaus, and Kazahk with troops on each territory. I want to attack Moscow by blitzing my 2 Armor through Belorussia having my 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers with 3 Infantry join in with them in the attack on Moscow.”
If he captures Belorussia first (since this territory contain no enemy units), and then the tanks move to Moscow, then Belorussia is now controlled by Germany, isn’t it logic that the bombers could move like this: Baltic sea –> Karelia --> Belorussia --> Moscow ?
If not, it means that the paratrooper rule states that a territory must be owned by the attacker at the start of a turn, if the bomber carrying paratroopers shall be allowed to fly through this territory. So in this case, Germany should already own Belorussia to be allowed to attack with paratroopers?
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@Subotai:
“Germany has the Paratrooper technology and holds Karelia, and is really putting pressure on Russia. It is Germany’s turn, and he has 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers in Germany with 3 Infantry who whould really like to visit Moscow this turn. Also Germany has 2 Armor in Karelia, having just built them last turn. Moscow is only defended by 6 Infantry, and Belorussia has no defenders (but is still under Russian control). Russia also controls Archangelsk, Eastern Ukraine, Caucaus, and Kazahk with troops on each territory. I want to attack Moscow by blitzing my 2 Armor through Belorussia having my 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers with 3 Infantry join in with them in the attack on Moscow.”
If he captures Belorussia first (since this territory contain no enemy units), and then the tanks move to Moscow, then Belorussia is now controlled by Germany, isn’t it logic that the bombers could move like this: Baltic sea –> Karelia --> Belorussia --> Moscow ?
If not, it means that the paratrooper rule states that a territory must be owned by the attacker at the start of a turn, if the bomber carrying paratroopers shall be allowed to fly through this territory. So in this case, Germany should already own Belorussia to be allowed to attack with paratroopers?
Doesn’t all combat take place at the same time? This is a basic rule which is there since the beginning of A&A 1st edition.
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Doesn’t all combat take place at the same time? This is a basic rule which is there since the beginning of A&A 1st edition.
You’re probably correct, I’m used to TripleA rules :-)
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Second Situation: This is a partially contrived situation to help me understand the rules better. If America had the Rocket tech, UK had the Radar tech, and Russia had no techs, but Karelia, controlled by Russia, contained an AA gun from each of the Allies, then I assume the following: that on Russia’s turn, he would not get the Archangelsk bonus, and on America’s turn he could fire Rockets at Germany from that AA gun, and if Germany attacks Karelia with air units, then the UK AA gun would fire at a “2” instead of the Russian AA gun firing at a “1”.
Hey, I thought, I read somewhere, you may only have one AA gun in a territory at a time, singular not plural.
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I am sure this has been posted already so forgive me. How many INF can a bomber with the paratrooper tech carry?
Also is this just limited to INF? I ask b/c the glider units were able to carry small ART units.
Thanks,
LT
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They can only carry one infantry (which is one too many), and nothing else.
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First situation: This is an actual situation from a game we just played. Germany has the Paratrooper technology and holds Karelia, and is really putting pressure on Russia. It is Germany’s turn, and he has 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers 8-) in Germany with 3 Infantry who whould really like to visit Moscow this turn. Also Germany has 2 Armor in Karelia, having just built them last turn. Moscow is only defended by 6 Infantry, and Belorussia has no defenders (but is still under Russian control). Russia also controls Archangelsk, Eastern Ukraine, Caucaus, and Kazahk with troops on each territory. I want to attack Moscow by blitzing my 2 Armor through Belorussia having my 3 Long Range Paratrooping Heavy Bombers with 3 Infantry join in with them in the attack on Moscow. I should be able to take it with these forces, but the Russian player says that the Paratroopers can not go past Belorussia due to the restriction on the Paratroopers flying behind the lines. What is correct?
Paratroopers must be dropped in the first enemy-controlled territory that is encountered on their bomber’s flight path, and the bombers must also attack that same territory. If Russia is insulated by Soviet-controlled territories, German paratroopers cannot be dropped there.
I’ve talked this one over with Larry, and I’ve changed my mind on the interpretation. Since the control of a territory changes immediately when a tank blitzes through it, during the Combat Movement phase, the bomber should be able to use the same route the tank took to bring paratroopers to the territory the tank ends up in.
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that makes more sence.
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@Imperious:
that makes more sence.
Yes, it does. Right now I’m inclined to interpret such things conservatively until I can find out more about the intent of the rule. Knowing Larry’s generally conservative outlook on techs, I don’t like to make them out to be any more powerful than they already are. However, I’m not afraid to bug him about something, like this, that seems to warrant the flexible interpretation.
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Thank you for double-checking on this. It definitely seems to make more sense to allow the Paratrooing Bombers to attack with the Tanks.
In an earlier post, you indicated that you don’t like the Paratrooper tech. May I ask why? Is it because it makes bombers too powerful, or is it something else? Personally, I like it, but only because I feel that Paratroopers belong in the game. I do think that it does make the Bombers even more powerful, and combined with the Heavy Bomber/Longe Range tech, it becomes VERY powerful.
Perhaps having a Transport plane unit(cost 6 IPC, Range 5 (7 with Long Range), 0 Attack/0 Defense, can transport 1 Infantry for Combat or Non-Combat, and may also pick up the Infantry in a different territory from the Transport Plane’s starting territoy) would be better. -
In an earlier post, you indicated that you don’t like the Paratrooper tech. May I ask why? Is it because it makes bombers too powerful, or is it something else?
I probably shouldn’t have said that, but since I did, I guess I should explain.
My problem with the idea of paratroopers in this game is one of scale. The size of one “infantry unit” is very vague in this and all A&A games. However, the size of land territories is not vague. France is France, and we know how large it is. Given that, one “infantry unit” must be large enough to occupy and control a territory, therefore one infantry unit is large enough to occupy and control an area the size of France (or Germany, etc.).
If you accept that, you must accept the fact that, with the Paratroopers development, a bomber unit can carry and drop enough soldiers to occupy and control an area the size of France. The fact is, there were never any paratrooper drops of that scale during World War II, as it would have been completely impractical. Granted, there were some large paratroop operations, but they were always in conjunction with attacks by land- or seabourne troops - not by themselves. The nature of paratroopers is that they drop behind enemy lines to disrupt enemy operations and secure forward objectives. Because of the nature of their transportation, they travel light. The only carry enough supplies and equipment to last until they’re supported by the advancing conventional troops.
Given all that, a “paratrooper unit” must be smaller than an “infantry unit” is in this game. This leads to the conclusion that a “paratrooper unit” is already assumed to be abstracted into the “infantry unit”. It simply doesn’t merit being a separate entity in a game on this scale.
However, if we must have paratroopers at all, I do like the idea that they must stop moving as soon as they enter hostile territory. This is a welcome change from previous incarnations of paratroopers that I’ve seen. It prevents the outrageously unrealistic possibility of dropping paratroopers hundreds of miles behind enemy lines with no hope at all of timely support from conventional troops.
Of course, this is simply my opinion.
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Well said!
I agree with your rational, but I do feel that Paratroopers belong in the game. I don’t know the solution though. Perhaps they could only be used in attacks where at least 1 other unit is also attacking the same territory by land or by sea. (I would make an exception for islands and perhaps undefended territories.)
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