Adding Italy

[Imperious Leader]

AARHE already did this we have map file and rules to go. 1942 with italy is the name of file.

[Obergruppenfuhrer]

I have to change my original opinion of the Italians upon further studies of the SS. While many of their units performed horribly on the Russian front, units enganged in repelling operation TORCH performed with extreme bravery. They originally were not allowed to where the SS patch on black and eventually many Italians wore red collar tabs with white SS runes instead.

After heavy losses and an extraordinary performance engaging the allies invading Italy, Himmler awarded them full SS status “with all rights and priviledges.” Even units not involved in the fighting directly were awarded this promotion. They were brought into Germany for further training. I’m learning that staunch Italian facists volunteers performed extremely well in the European theater despite being outnumbered and suffering heavy losses. Many units were upgraded to official SS units with a German officer as commander.

[FieldMarshalGames]

@Imperious:

AARHE already did this we have map file and rules to go. 1942 with italy is the name of file.

Are there set-up charts available for AAE with ITALY?

[Imperious Leader]

Under Tekkyy signature. look in house rules files

1942 italy

[Constantinople]

Italy in AAE!!!

Try this site:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20457

It is not a boxed game as it seems to be; just a rules set.

[Adlertag]

My group play A&A Europe with Italy this way:

Italy control N. Italy, S. Italy, Libya and Tunisia, a total of 8 IPC at start.
Germany control the rest, a total of 32 IPC at start.

Turn order:
Germany
USSR
Italy
UK
USA

We use the pieces and rules from A&A Anniversary ed. But with destroyers at 2 in combat value, the Brit set-up need 4 cruisers, or Germany need 2 subs less.

This pretty much fix the broken game. Germany used to buy 8 tanks against 8 russian infantry, and because of this they conquered Moscow in turn 5. Always. But not any more. The game is much more balanced with the A&A Anniversary rules and cost.

Also, to spice up the game:
The German army was very efficient because they used “Combined Arms tactic” and “Auftragstaktik”. So when german units attack or defend, roll all dice simultanesly, and then assign the hits to the proper units. Like germany attack with 4 inf, 2 tanks and 1 bomber. Roll 7 dice, and assign the 1’s to the inf, and the 3’s or less to the tanks, and a 4 or less to the bomber. The other army,s use the old Commanding system from Napoleon, so they roll all the infantry dice, looking for 1’s, and then roll all tanks dice, looking for 3’s or less, and so on.

In naval battles, the brits use the Combined Arms tactic, and roll all dices simultanesly, and then assign the hits. And the other navies must roll the old fashion system, column by column.

[murraymoto]

@Constantinople:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/20457
It is not a boxed game as it seems to be; just a rules set.

hmmm, so the Italian Fleet remains German?…. I think that is best summed up by quoting a William Shatner song, “I just can’t get behind that.”

why not make them Italian since all the units there are Italian already.  I didn’t see it in the rules either, but unless Germany can build in Italian shipyards they won’t be able to add to the fleet unless Italy does it, which means loss of coordination of the fleet.

[murraymoto]

@Adlertag:

My group play A&A Europe with Italy this way:
Italy control N. Italy, S. Italy, Libya and Tunisia, a total of 8 IPC at start.
Germany control the rest, a total of 32 IPC at start.

Aldertag, now this has some promise.

Do you find that with Germany is often moving into the ‘boot’ to bail out Italy too often?  I’ve seen the 30-10 split to start but does 32-8 make much difference?

[Adlertag]

@murraymoto:

Do you find that with Germany is often moving into the ‘boot’ to bail out Italy too often?  I’ve seen the 30-10 split to start but does 32-8 make much difference?

With 30 ipc’s, Ge can buy 10 inf first and second turn, then 6 tanks + for the rest.
With 32 ipc’s, Ge can buy 8 inf and 2 art first and second turn, then 6  tanks + for the rest.

At 8 ipc’s, Italy can buy 1 inf and 1 tank each turn, and that is enough to both conquer the Mid East and support Ge in south Sovjet. Of course Moscow still must fall before D-day. With this split, that is not as easy anymore.

With this split, Ge got not so many options. It stand between SeaLion or Barbarossa. And this is historicall correct and give a good feeling. For game balance, the inf in Ge controlled Morocco and Crete should be Italian infantry. Maybe even the 2 inf and art in Ge controlled Greece could be Italians.

[Adlertag]

I would also change a bit on the map. Let Bessarabia cover down to the Black Sea, since it did historically. One more space between Rumenia and Stalingrad. Also split Belorussia in two territories. One more space between Berlin and Moscow. It is true that Belorussia have diffucult terrain like the Pripjat Marshes, big forests, dirt roads and swamps, natural obstacles that dont favour fast movement. And ouch, the Allies start winning again, and the game is not broken anymore.

[Adlertag]

We are also fooling around with this Combined Arms doctrines :

-Barrage: A inf that attack toghether with a matching artillery, hit on 2 or less.
-Mech Inf: A inf that start the move with a matching tank, moves 2 spaces.
-Fortress: A inf that defend togheter with a matching blockhouse, hit on 3 or less.

(use the Blockhouse unit from D-day. Blockhouse cost 5 IPC, and can be build in any territory you controll with one or more land units. Blockhouse defend on 3 or less, and also boost up a matching infantry to defend at 3 or less.)

-Paratroopers: A inf that start the move with a matching bomber, can jump out in any territory within the bombers range.
-Shore bombardment: A inf in amphibious assualt can be supportet by a matching battleship or cruiser. But only in the first round of battle.

[Adlertag]

We also think there should be no opening fire. All units must be allowed to return fire. In no time in history did some AA-guns kill thousands of aircrafts, with no retalliation. AA-guns should roll in every battle round as long as there is any planes left, and the planes that are hit, move to casualty zone, and take a parting roll as standard rule.

[murraymoto]

Niice Aldertag!

That’s a lot to digest and lots of add-ins to the game.  Even if it were still broken, it would be a lot more interesting.

[Adlertag]

You are my new friend, and I just gave you a + karma for your kind support  :-)

[Adlertag]

About modifying the map:

After studying a lot of maps, I think the Sovjet territories should be like this:

1. Belorussia should NOT be adjacent to Stalingrad. I know it is for game playability purpose, but in real world it is a very long distance from Baltic to Stalingrad. So take a pencil, and draw a line from Moscow to Ukraine. Also Turkestan should be split, or else you get an Express-road from Baltic to Caucasus that is not very correct. So draw a line from Stalingrad to the right frame of the map.

2. Ukraine should be split. Draw a line from Belorussian border to the Black Sea. Look at a map, and make the line follow the big river that split the country natural. Now you got Western Ukraine and Eastern Ukraine.

3. Caucasus are way too big. Draw a line from Black Sea to the right frame of the map. Look at a map and let the border follow the mountain range. Now you got Caucasus mountains in south, and new Volga territory in north.

4. Iran should be re-named Aserbadsjan.

5. Syria should NOT be adjacent to Iran (Aserbadsjan). Draw a line from Iraq to Turkey, so the Iraqi territory is between Iran and Syria.

6. Also Libya should be split, in Cyrenaica and Tripolitania.

I love the rest of the map, and especially the sea zones are beautyful. This Europe sea zones make a better US shuck than Revised/Ann ed.

There are some Advanced maps out there, that cut Sovjet into hundrets of new territories, but I think that is a bit too much. My propositions above should do the trick.

Now gimme a +

[Adlertag]

new game balance

Now, since we use the Anniversary rules, cost and units, the out-of-box set up must be modified.

UK start with 6 destroyers. Originaly they used to cost 12 ipc and defended on 3 or less, but with Ann rules, the new destroyers cost 8 and defend on 2’s or less. The difference in combat factors are 6 points, and the difference in cost are 24 ipc’s. So it is easy to see that UK need 2 cruisers to cover up. I suggest one cruiser in North Sea and the other in Gibraltar. Or the Uk player could be free to choose.

I also want Germany to start with the Revised naval set up in Denmark Sea. That is 1 destroyer, 1 tranny and 2 subs. After all Germany still got some surface ships in 1941, and this game should be as close to history as possible. And to balance that DD, then UK can get 2 subs. I suppose 1 sub for Davies Sea and 1 sub for Celtic Sea.

I also suggest that the 2 southern subs are Italian. Then Italy will get 2 subs in south Atlantic, and 1 battleship, 1 destroyer and 1 tranny in Thyrrenian Sea. Uk get 1 cruiser and 1 destroyer in Gibraltar and 1 destroyer and 1 tranny in Eastern Mediterranean.

In addition, the axis got 12 ipc to spend on set up, and the allies got 12 ipc to spend on set up, and you also have bids to even out.

[murraymoto]

Aldertag, +1 for you… we’ll be trying our hand at some of these variations in the near future.

[Guest]

Here’s some rules I want to try out for adding Italy:

-As everyone said, Italy gets 8 IPC, all units in those territories are Italian

-Germany gets an industrial complex in France

-Capital rules no longer apply.  Instead, capturing all of a nation’s home industrial complexes counts as capturing that nation’s “capital”.

This might hurt Germany too bad though, so I’m thinking about giving Germany 1 free sub/turn as long as Berlin is Axis controlled.