@vowly said in Rule Entry for flying over neutrals:
Does this count for non combat moves of only combat moves?
Logic dictates that “Fly over” applies to combat and non-combat movement.
Rule regarding AA guns
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If I have 3 FTRs attacking 2 INF and 2 AA Guns how does the first round fire get conducted?
The controlling rule seems to found in Section 12 Units under the Anti-Air portion. “An AA gun
rolls one die for each opposing aircraft up to a maximum of three rolls on a hit of 3 or less.” This means an AA gun firing at 3 planes is a great outcome. (Cost 4 IPP for an average of 7.5 IPP for one volley.) Since no mention is made of multiple AA gun interactions the 2AA guns in my example would role 6d12 hitting on 3 or less. This creates a potential offensive application for AA guns that may not be intended.During a recent game in China, Japan had marshaled a large force and parked it next to Yunnan looking to close the Burma Road. China had a large stack of defenders plus a fair number of AAs. China launched pre-emptive strikes at the Japanese bringing their AAs plus sufficient INF to absorb casualties. Since Japan had a large air-force the result was a painful loss of expensive air units. The Chinese then retreated.
Is this working as intended?
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The key phrase is “up to”.
You would not get any more than 3 shots at the fighters no matter how many AA guns you have opposing them. In other words, you can’t have more shots than you have planes. The only benefit to having more than one AA gun would be if there were more than 3 planes. With 2 guns you could take shots at “up to” 6 planes. 3 guns up to 9 planes, etc. If there was only 1 plane you would only get 1 shot.
The only difference between the rules regarding AA guns in Global War and Axis & Allies is that in Global War they can combat move and attack, whereas A&A they are only defensive.
To answer you question directly; Attacker rolls 3 dice @ 6, Defender rolls 3 dice @ 3 and 2 dice @ 4. -
I play AA guns that way but the phrasing in the book is flawed. There is no mention of how AA guns interact. So unless one has played A&A and used their understanding of AA guns there is nothing in the Global War rules that produce the one shot per plane limit that exists in Axis and Allies. Since I was playing with someone that had not played Axis and Allies using a different game to explain the rules of the one being played was a tough sell.
I hope that the 3rd edition of the game include more complete explanation of the rules and relies less upon Axis and Allies knowledge to fill in the gaps.
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This is the phrasing in the book;
"An AA gun rolls one die for each opposing aircraft up to a maximum of
three rolls on a hit of 3 or less. "
That is exactly what they do and also how I explained it. One thing to note though if you’re referring to A&A rules, the plane(s) will still fire in the first round even if they are hit by AA guns because the guns are not first strike. In A&A The AA guns fire before normal combat begins. -
I am sorry if I am being pedantic but I do not see anything limiting the addition of a second AA gun.
a. Gun 1 and 2 are AA guns.
b. Gun 1 and 2 roll one die for each opposing aircraft
c. Gun 1 and 2 roll a maximum of 3 dicesThose conditions are all true from my example and match each condition in the rule. Clause b should be modified to include"roll one die for each opposing aircraft not yet targeted by an AA gun". I agree with you how AA guns should be played but I guess my inner rules-lawyer rebels at the absence of the governing rule for AA gun interaction from what is printed on the page.
BTW I would take a moment to thank you for your work on this hobby and you-tube channel. I have enjoyed a lot of the content you have produced.
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My buddy and I play this game quite a bit and we’ve had to email HBG a few times to clarify rules. I’m glad this question was answered because it came up in my most recent play through. The limit of one AA gun was decided as a house rule for balancing reasons. A persistent rule-lawyer could rightfully argue that you could use multiple. I’ve lost arguments about the rules solely based on not enough information being provided in the rule book and so I had to either accept the interpretation of a rule, or email HBG.
I love this game, but the addition of clarifications and examples in the rule book are desperately needed. Furthermore, references to rules and to National Reference Sheet rules within the rule book is also a must. A rule book that I’ve always admired has been Europe at War: 1939-1945. Perhaps HBG can take inspiration from well founded rule books to improve their new version of 1936.
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@GeneralHandGrenade I disagree.
Unlike A&A, I find no mention in the AA section that “each attacking[/defending(in GW)] air unit may only be fired upon once.”
That leads me to believe the key phrase is “An AA gun”. While each AA gun can fire at up to three different air units, it can only fire at the each air unit once. That makes me think that two AA guns can fire at the same aircraft.e.g. two fighters are attacking, two AA guns defending. Both guns have two shots at each aircraft, for a total of four dice.
Or if you have between 4-6 planes and 2 AA, you roll six dice.The Coastal Artillery rule is written in the same way.
If you have three tanks attacking one infantry, you wouldn’t roll one die for the tanks. You would roll three dice because they all can hit the infantry.
Rule:
Anti-Aircraft: An anti-aircraft gun (AA) fires specifically at aircraft. It does not Defend facilities from strategic bombing (although facilities have inherent AA guns which function identically to a normal AA gun but do not move). An AA gun rolls one die for each opposing aircraft up to a maximum of three rolls on a hit of 3 or less. The player suffering the hit chooses which aircraft to remove as casualties and those aircraft make their Attack/Defense rolls as normal. AA guns fire on the first round of combat only. The gun may be taken as a casualty in any round. Artillery or AA can move two zones when paired 1:1 with motorized infantry. -
I have received clarification on this topic. I was wrong in my interpretation.
Here are examples of how it works;
3 planes vs 3 AAA- The AAA would get 9 shots (1 each for each plane= 3 each)
2 planes vs 3 AAA- 6 shots ( 2 shots each AAA)
1 planes vs 3 AAA- 3 shots ( 1 shot each)It doesn’t matter how many AAA you have, each unit can’t exceed the amount of shots for the number of planes the opponent has. In other words, 5 AAA vs 1 plane would be 5 shots.
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@GeneralHandGrenade said in Rule regarding AA guns:
I have received clarification on this topic. I was wrong in my interpretation.
Here are examples of how it works;
3 planes vs 3 AAA- The AAA would get 9 shots (1 each for each plane= 3 each)
2 planes vs 3 AAA- 6 shots ( 2 shots each AAA)
1 planes vs 3 AAA- 3 shots ( 1 shot each)It doesn’t matter how many AAA you have, each unit can’t exceed the amount of shots for the number of planes the opponent has. In other words, 5 AAA vs 1 plane would be 5 shots.
That is the exact opposite of how AAA works in the later editions of A&A, where the cap on dice is the number of planes in the air (subject to the no more than three dice per AAA rule). Is HBG sure they want to walk down the road of having different rules for the same things? I know I wouldn’t remember that.
-Midnight_Reaper
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@Midnight_Reaper Yes they are sure, believe me I asked that question. They believe that AAA are underpowered in A&A and they wanted a better representation of the unit. There were a ton of planes that were shot down by AA guns. I will be making a new video series on V-3 of the rules once the map and rules are done and set in stone. I’m going to have all of my work checked before I publish the videos so that will give people the the opportunity to have all of the rules clarified and certified instead of just my interpretation. The videos will be clearly marked for rule numbers and page numbers so it will be easy to find the answer. They can ask questions on the videos and I will get the correct answer before I respond to them.
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Thank god for house rules because this rule is an overreaction that’ll make planes a waste of money.
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