Starting pieces totals:

[Romulus]

Looking at this starting setup I have to agree with Emperor_Taiki.
We have to remeber two things. First A&A pieces are abstract pieces and not historical formations or units. Second the number of units on the board depict not only the quantity but also the quality of the units. Red Army in 1941 was still recovering from the purges inflicted by Stalin and by the Finnish campaign. USSR had the greatest number of tanks, but the great part of them are outdated models and are also employed with inferior tactics.

Moreover, I like the order of play of the 1941 scenario.

[losttribe04]

With Russia having so much INF at the begining they can splerge and do a 100% ARM build first round if they wanted to.

[captainjack]

@LT04:

With Russia having so much INF at the begining they can splerge and do a 100% ARM build first round if they wanted to.

Maybe even a fighter.  It helps that they start with 30 IPC

[losttribe04]

That will be nice that Russia get so discretion as is able to be creative beside the normal build INF and don’t loose Moscow routine.

LT

[Imperious Leader]

I edited the set up for the Hawaiian battleship

also, on Soviets 1941 they got no air, or armor, so thats what id buy… maybe even a Soviet Bomber!

first 2 fighters
then armor

[Atlantikwall]

@Imperious:

1941 scenario:

UK:

1 BB

1 Cruiser
3 Transports
5 Destroyers

I find it`s not quite obvious to figure out what ships are found on the map as still they all look imho too equal. UK is just an exemple.

Could you be please so kind and post the units per sea zone, so e.g. Bb, Trn (sz1), etc…

So are these Cru, Des in sz12 (AZO)?

P.S.: And I also count 11 UK-ships, so that`s propably one more trn I think

[Dagon81]

What is the part of this publicity I dont get…?!

Axis & Allies: Anniversary Edition details:

Designed by Larry Harris, creator of Axis & Allies
Italy introduced as the third Axis nation
Two set-up options: Spring 1941 and Spring 1942
Cruiser class ships join the naval unit line-up
China included as US controlled ally
New sculpts for Italy  ???  , China, and others
Game board measures ~ 24” x 46”
Over 600 game pieces
48 page rulebook

Can someone tell me?

Italian “new” pieces:

infantry = NEW; hurray!!!
artillery = old japanese one;
armour = old japanese one;
fighter = german messerchmitt;
bomber = I really dont know but Im afraid is more of the same “AH new”-old AA German bomber;

battleship = german biscmark?!?
cruiser = “new” german cruiser
transport = old german transport
destroyer = old german destroyer
submarine = old german submarine
bomber = I really dont know but Im afraid is more of the same “AH new”-old AA German carrier;

Now now…whats this deal?! Is AH joking or what?! 100$ ( probably 100€… ) and they reuse the same molds with different colours?!

You know where this will lead dont you? 4 years from now youll see another “development” in the A&A game and another promise of “super-new-molds-for-the-new-old-italian-nation…” probably 150$… they promise 1000+ pieces and we all get happy!!!  Thats ridiculous.

I guess they cant throw a game with all the goodies… they have to squeeze all the juice…and the longer they do it, more $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Pieces are cheaper by larger numbers… the only costy thing is the MOLD of the pieces…

So where does this leaves us? Misleading advertising… Why do you think AH didnt give details/images about this game? Only promises… you go with the hype! and pre-order the game like there is no tomorrow…

Well, happy you!

[Romulus]

Yes, Dagon81, this point is the worst point of Anniversry. I was eagerly awaiting for italian units and … we will have recycled miniatures… :(

[Krieghund]

To be fair, there are “new sculpts for Italy”, just not for all the units. The tank is actually new, it just looks a lot like the Japanese one. All the naval units are the same as the German ones, and the bomber is the same as the Japanese one. On the plus side, the UK gets its own tank.

[Romulus]

@Krieghund:

To be fair, there are “new sculpts for Italy”, just not for all the units. The tank is actually new, it just looks a lot like the Japanese one. All the naval units are the same as the German ones, and the bomber is the same as the Japanese one. On the plus side, the UK gets its own tank.

Krieghund, this is no “fair”.

[Krieghund]

My point is that they never promised that all of the Italian units would be new scuplts.  I have to agree with you, though, I am disappointed that they aren’t.  As to whether the game is worth $100 (or whatever you pay on-line), I’ll have to wait until it’s physically in my possession before making that call.

[Romulus]

@Krieghund:

My point is that they never promised that all of the Italian units would be new scuplts.  I have to agree with you, though, I am disappointed that they aren’t.  As to whether the game is worth $100 (or whatever you pay on-line), I’ll have to wait until it’s physically in my possession before making that call.

Questionable.

In the same way they never said that only some Italian units will be old  sculpts.

[Krieghund]

True, it’s a matter of interpretation.  Given the history, I personally didn’t expect all of the Italian units to be new scultps, but I did expect more of them to be than they are.

[Romulus]

Thee is only a “sure” new sculpts: the italian infantry. The Italian tank is a strange object, from the pics I have still to identify the model. Stop. All the other units are recycled. While UK received a new tank? UK fought with Sherman for the most part, there was no need to change it.

I had been happy having at least the BB and the Cruiser as new sculpts.

For not speaking about the color… brown… historically Italy never had a brown color and is also similar to USSR colour.

The problem is that they have done this in the Anniversary Edition. The celebration for the 50 years of Avalon Hill and they are going to sell the game at 100$.

[Krieghund]

The Italian tank is definitely new, but I’m not sure of the model.

[Imperious Leader]

$69.00

[captainjack]

@Imperious:

$69.00

LOL  :lol:  IL - I can tell that it frustrates you when the game is quoted at the retail price of $100 instead of the “actual” price of $69.00!  I think that’s funny!

[Guest]

@Krieghund:

The Italian tank is definitely new, but I’m not sure of the model.

The two most widely used Italian tanks were the M13/40 and the M14/41, see following web site.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/g_tnkita.htm

The Italian tank has the correct suspension set up, I think, but the upper profile does not look right at all, almost have to see a profile picture.  I guess you could call it a poor miniature of the M13/40 or M14/41.

The British looks to be the Matilda II infantry tank, a nice tank, but one that was used only up to early 1942.  I can think of three better choices for a distinctive British tank:  the Valentine and the Churchill, both infantry tanks, or the Cromwell, probably the best British tank in wide service.  Alternatively, they could have used the Comet, available in time for the D-Day invasion.

As for the rest of the Italian sculpts, aside from the color being so close to the Russian, using the JAPANESE BETTY as the Italian bomber.  Wizards/Hasbro could not spring for a new mold for the SM-79 Sparviero?  New molds in China cost about $3500.  Plastic costs, cutting them from the runners, and packaging is going to be the same regardless of what the piece looks like.  Allowing for dealer markup, that is about the cost of 230 games, figuring about $40 cost to wholesalers, and probably $25 production costs and shipping from China to here.  They did not believe that a distinctive Italian bomber would not sell at least 230 more games?  Given the recycled molds, the profit margin to Wizards/Hasbro is going to be pretty good.  Productioni costs probably will be lower for the other A&A games because of the run for Anniversary, and I suspect will be lower than $25 per game for Anniversary.

I think that I am going to cancel my preorder for 2 games, and hopefully, there will be one on display at the Chicago Toy and Game Fair which I will be at.  Depending on how that looks, I might go back to writing my own rules to add Italy.

[Krieghund]

@timerover51:

@Krieghund:

The Italian tank is definitely new, but I’m not sure of the model.

The two most widely used Italian tanks were the M13/40 and the M14/41, see following web site.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1975/g_tnkita.htm

The Italian tank has the correct suspension set up, I think, but the upper profile does not look right at all, almost have to see a profile picture.  I guess you could call it a poor miniature of the M13/40 or M14/41.

I’d say it’s either an M.13/40 or an M.15/42.  It’s hard to tell them apart at that scale.

[Romulus]

Yes, also I am thinking that it should be a M13/40, that was the tank produced in greater number by Italy, about 1400 units. M14/41 was an improved version of the M13/40. Had crew access door on left side of hull and an improved air and fuel filters and installed a more powerful diesel engine. So it is difficult to recognize between the two models. M15/42 was produced in very few units, it is difficult ot consider it for being representative and is almost identical to M14/41, saving a slightly more powerful engine and a different design for the rear.

I suppose they have depicted the M13/40.