@AaronConnor Welcome to the forum :slightly_smiling_face:
Don’t wonder, I have closed this topic in favour of the other one. Please don’t double post. Just use “edit” or write a new posting inside your existing thread in case you want to add something.
Zombies 1942: How Does Axis Win?
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I’ve played a few games of 1942 with the supplementary Zombie rules and it just doesn’t seem like Axis has much of a chance. How are they supposed to bust Moscow in time when every Russian inf they kill (and German that gets killed) has twice the chance of hitting a German in the next round of combat as a Russian? Choking USSR economically to get a enough of a resource advantage means, as far as I can tell, that India then becomes the insurmountable stack. Attacking Moscow for a round or two, then retreating, and leaving the Russians with all those zombies is one option, but as usual you’re on the clock against US expansion in particular, and even an apocalypse which is basically always an Allied win.
For those players who have done well with Axis in 1942 + Zombies how did you adjust to the apparent boost Allied turtling has gotten? I buy a lot more artillery but I just can’t keep up with Calcutta/Moscow turtles.
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@vonLettowVorbeck1915
As you appear to be the first one reporting about the 1942 scenario I am interested in how you corrected the US setup? -
Well considering the 1942 setup for Zombies is almost identical to the normal one (1942 2E I think if we are being technical), I just used the 1942 one.
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@vonLettowVorbeck1915
I am referring to this issue: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/post/1233749
How did you handle it? -
On second thought, because the Zombies 1942 setup was so janked up, we just straight up used the 1942 2E setup (so they are not identical, maybe 85% the same). UK is definitely weaker navally in 42 than Z42, and Germany has less land units in 42 than Z42. Maybe that’s more than the axis can handle. (Russia has 2 less land units in 42 than Z42 as well). My suspicion is that the setup differences wouldn’t quite address the uphill battle Axis faces, especially when the added units to Z42 are infantry which compound the turtling problem(?). I think all powers have added land units relative to 1942 but the Axis advantage there is minor.
Maybe a game with the zombies setup (but use the 1942 2E US setup) would change things a bit.
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Another thing is gaming the zombie controlled territories with techs. It’s cool to have the random events influence the game to some extent, but in the current game USA has mind control ray and can really take advantage of moving zombies into unoccupied territories which get the zombie income up pretty high and makes things riskier for the Axis. Zombies are basically another Allied Power late game, since if Germany does a couple rounds in Moscow and then leaves it to the zombies to come back later (plus it’s happened a couple times that the zombie-stacked player draws the move half of the zombies card), that’s 8 for the Zombie income that can really set off the apocalypse.
Not really sure what could discourage the Allies from turtling and/or actively trying to get the Zombies more income. It seems like a light unit advantage for Axis over 42 2E is offset by massive defensive and cheesy strategy advantages for the Allies.
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Never got around to trying this myself. The only thing that I can see working for Axis is making a beeline for Karilia and using that to pump out TANKs and ART with Germany. Then you just need to bleed out the Russians and the Zombies in W. Russia and Archangel until you reach a point where you can safely step in.
Japan probably just devolves into the usual IC to Manchuria + IC to FIC -> Pump out 5 TANKs/turn until resistance is overcome. You can just go around Calcutta (or do one or two drops there and drown it in Zombies) as long as you kill Moscow.
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The problems you’re describing with the Zombies extremely favoring the Allies by virtue of existing is the main problem we all found with the main AAZ game way back when, too. We never really did find a way to overcome the odds aside from bidding.
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I don’t know if its an allied advantage–plenty of times the described endgame comes and the Axis clear Moscow with 6 or so units left, then they only have to survive one round of Zombies attacks, they win. In an equal number of playouts, the zombies eat the remaining Germans so the Germans would have to rush Moscow again (along with Japan throwing its airforce at it) and see if they can survive another round, plus another bite.
If they can, they win. If they cannot, allies would eventually win, though the game is going to go on for a while and is more up in the air than the first described scenario.
One thing I will say is that the addition of both tech and zombies are tedious and arbitrary–they extend certain parts of the rolling game and add some new considerations to the old system that require more planning, and thinking–not to win, but just to accurately account for all those zombies, coming and going, and two types of hits, that can target two different types of units (but not incoming, yet to be allocated zombies).
In the normal game once the number of hits required has been rolled you can just say “wiped” and they can stop rolling and there is nothing else to do except retal (often rolled simultaneously) and clean up. In AAZ, you have to keep separate count of zombie hits rolled, excess hits rolled, and “zombies present vs zombies to be produced”. Yuck.
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I think your post more refers to the OOB game than the 1942 2E with Zombies added.
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My Initial feeling is that players should be rewarded for taking on the zombies as much as players are rewarded defensively for generating them.
Flipping a card and getting a tech doesn’t feel fun or interesting for anyone.
I’ve been playing around with killing x number of zombies in a turn generating tech rolls. Like 1 roll for every 5 zombies killed in a turn.
This way the players who kill the most zombies are the best at killing zombies.I’m not sure yet if this is enough to balance the game.
I’ve also been trying with boosting the IPC production of Germany and Japan capital territories, this along with the tech change seem to be helping the game balance for me.I guess this post fits more with house rules. But I don’t see any other way to balance the game and give the axis a chance.
If only changing the setup and no other rules I think Germany would need more tanks and aircraft. I would probably give more aircraft to Japan as well.
The only strategy that somewhat worked for me as the axis was picking territories for initial battles where I didn’t really want to be so that later I can go around the pile of zombies. But even this was really too much attrition for the axis. Then in territories you don’t want to clog up with zombies you have to go in with tanks and aircraft, plus you need some zombie tech.
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@8d88 admittedly I don’t play this version much but one idea I’ve seen floating around is to not build INF outright as a way to dodge the zombies. That does kind of forestall there being a point where zombies occupy enough IPC value to prematurely end the game but it’s very resource inefficient as INF are generally the best unit (as with all A&A versions).
I’ve also toyed with the idea of just house ruling the entire zombie mechanic out of the game and play the map as a sort of “41 +1” edition but that kind of defeats the point of the whole game…
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@DoManMacgee I’ve used the OOB board without the zombies to teach new players, and so far I think it’s better than 1941 for that.
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