yes but Italy will have limited punch ability. But thats a good point.
The other thing is the Axis have balanced resolve to counter allied 1-2 punch because their will be no turn sequence that allows for 2 allied turns in a row, which is a kick in the arse for Axis.
@Corbeau:
You guys forget the possibilities for “can opener” it gives to the axis.
If Germany open a hole in Russian defenses and Italians have a force of tanks in waiting, you get the perfect blitzkreig.
Italy is going to be hard pressed to conquer Africa, and save its own bacon rather than massing tanks for taking Moscow.
The idea of a 1-2 punch is fine. But Italy wont be half (or even 1/3) the offensive power Germany will be. Italy wont have enough IPC to buy masses of tanks (which isnt a good idea for them anyway).
Frankly, I like the idea of Italy as a distinct player. But even though Larry caved-in to us and made an Italy ruleset, I’m guessing the “better” (i.e. more competitive) version of the game will have Germany in control of Italy like in AAR.
But it is finally nice to have the option to play it either way.
With the one - two punch Germany will have to attack and Italy will have to occupy with INF. Maybe Japan with some FTR’s.
LT
One thing that I am curious to see is if there is any provision for the Italian player to switch sides and join the Allies during the game. That is basically what happened in 1943, and you had the US supplying the Italian Co-Belligerent Forces with military equipment, as the main Italian production centers were in North Italy. Be interesting to see. Also, I assume that the 1941 setup will reflect the Italian occupation of Ethiopia, with a small air unit component, maybe a destroyer and sub in Massawa, and some infantry units. I cannot see any basis for an Italian Industrial complex in Africa, but figure that you will have a British one, with the option of building a US one as well. The US was heavily involved in supporting the British forces in North Africa by mid 1941, following passage of the Lend-Lease Act in March of 1941.
/timerover51
The '41 scenario was added I think to increase the options for Italy and Japan. Barbarossa will be interesting of course to play, but it will not change gameplay dramatically as I suspect any killer blow to Russia will probably have to wait to '42 and even '43 as in A&A Revised. But Italy in '41 can choose to boost its land help to the Germans, or to invade Gibraltar and move vs. West Africa or to focus on taking Egypt. Japan, of course, has massive amount of options as in A&A Pacific.
Italy switching sides will be represented by the Italian IC being taken over by the Allies, and being a really dangerous threat to Germany. The victory will also be represented in Italian IPCs being lost to the invading player. That is, when it switches sides, it is conquered as an Axis/fascist power and is included like the Free French in the Allies. The big question is if Italy will be divided into different territories. My guess in a post on another thread is that Sicily will be included as an important air base either for Italy vs. Malta or for the Allies vs. Italy proper. I don’t think Italy will be divided. That way the '43 landings of Sicily can take place even though southern Italy can’t be taken separately. It won’t be totally historically correct but good enough for a simulation!
In Pact_of_Steel the Sicily land zone is the island but it also has the very tip of the boot of Italy. You didn’t need transports to get from Sicilt to mainland Italy. Also there is only one SZ in that area like in Revised. I hope it isn’t like that in the Anniversary edition. That puts to much pressure on Italy to have to hold every territory they have b/c any allied navy could land in one or more land zones wile just sitting in the only SZ.
To make myself clearer… Say these are the following Italian land zones (LZ) Algeria, Libia, Sicily, Rome, W Balkins, Greese. If there is only one SZ in this area the allies could punch a hole in any one of those LZ’s simply by sitting and waiting.
For most countries this wouldn’t be an issue but for Italy with 18-24 IPC that’s a big deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah Italy is the weakest Axis state but adding a few SZ’s to the med. wouldn’t hurt any thing IMHO.
LT
Italy wont have 24 IPC. Not even close.
And Germany will have to make the Med a priority if Italy is going to survive.
I wonder how Germany will be able to focus on Russia like before or if they will have to baby-sit Italy?
LT
In pact of steel what are all the IPC values by nation?
Italy 16, Germany 38, Japan 30, Russia 24, UK 33, US 42
Italy 16, Germany 38, Japan 30, Russia 24, UK 33, US 42
those are good numbers for the new game i predict:
Germans 33-40 ( depending on scenario
Italy 15-16
Japan 22-30 ( depending on scenario)
Russia 32-24 (depending on scenario)
UK 28-30
USA 45
china 8-9 ( they buy differently- probably 2 IPC infantry)
Perhaps for Neutral nations… when you invade, multiply the amount of enemy alliance IPC values in adjacent territories by 2, and that many infantry defend. For example, in revised, if Germany controlled Western Europe and UK invaded Spain, it would have 12 German infantry spring up on defense (representing political pressure being applied to Spain because of its adjacency to German territory, followed by an attack from Germany’s enemy). On the flipside, Germany invading Spain would have no defensive forces pop up (clearly this means that there must be adjusted IPC values to make this rule work, but of course invading Spain even if Spain gave no resistance would be very risky as it gives Britain more ways to strike mainland europe, and you probably wont be reinforcing it with the 12 infantry that would have helped you otherwise).
2 variants of this idea:
-Instead of multiplying by 2, take the amount of enemy alliance IPC values in adjacent territories and simply add the neutral nation’s IPC value to find infantry amount.
-Instead of multiplying by 2, multiply by the value of the territory (which would obviously mean that neutrals would need to be either low in value, or not surrounded by massively valued territories).
I do not belive neutrals will be in play :-(
hope I am wrong
now I would love to attack and plunder neutral Sweden, crush them under my boots :lol:
What if Germany could invade areas in “Italian Sphere of Influance” and give the newly acquired land zones to Italy?
I can see Italy throwing an = force at say Egypt UK has 1 INF left and Germany moves in for the kill making an Axis 1, 2 punch. This way Italy can expand with the help of Germany.
What say you?
I do not belive neutrals will be in play :-(
hope I am wrong
now I would love to attack and plunder neutral Sweden, crush them under my boots :lol:
Ohh, Be nice to the Swedes and they’ll be nice to you! :wink:
Graig,
The only reason I suggest this method is to ensure the survival of Italy.
The allies often use a 1, 2, 3 punch on Germany Russia doesn’t normally benifit from this. UK makes the initial attack the US takes the territory and Russia reinforces it before Germany’s turn.
If Italy were to strike first and Germany take and hold the territory Italy won’t grow as an Axis power. Since we all seem to agree that Italy will start some where around 16 - 24 IPC’s they need the income the most.
LT
They could go in the following order:
Germany
Russia
Italy
UK
Japan
US / China
This would also put an end to the Russia restricted / Russia don’t attack first rules once and for all.
LT
When did Italy fall out of the war?
I pulled this from Wiki. Italy would be in both scenarios.
LT
Italy entered World War II on June 10, 1940. In September of 1940 Germany, Italy and Japan signed the Tripartite Pact. By 1941, however, the Italians had suffered multiple military defeats; in Greece and against the British in Egypt. It was only through German intervention in Yugoslavia, the Balkans and North Africa that Italy managed avert a major military collapse. By 1943 the Italian people had lost faith in Mussolini and no longer supported the war; Italy had lost its colonies, the allies had taken North Africa in May and Sicily had been invaded in July.
On July 25, 1943, King Victor Emmanuel III dismissed Mussolini, placed him under arrest, and began secret negotiations with the Allies. Italy then signed an armistice with the Allies on September 8, 1943
I don’t think it’s realistic though to have an option in Ann.Ed. where Italy can switch sides. The Allies are powerful enough without China and Italy.
Thanks.
