Axis&Allies Classic 2nd Edition Transports Rules Questions

[Cernel]

I’ve four questions about Axis&Allies Classic Second Edition.

1. If I have a transport with 2 infantries already loaded before the turn, can I offload 1 of them into a hostile territory, during Combat Movement, then offload the second one during Non Combat Movement, and, if so, can I offload it to another territory and regardless whether the transport moved or not (bridging)? And how about any differences in case such transport also took part in a victorious sea battle?

2. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Combat Movement, you can load a transport you are sending to take part in a sea battle, without offloading it on the same phase, applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, could you, instead, load it and offload to a friendly land territory from the hostile sea zone, during Combat Movement? (I suppose it doesn’t, and there is no way you can both offload units into a friendly territory from a transport and use that same transport as fodder in an attack, unless the units were already loaded before the turn)

3. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, you can only either load or unload a transport that hasn’t offloaded any units yet and that has taken part in a victorious sea battle applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it doesn’t, and a transport that participated in combat cannot load or move anymore at all, but it can offload units that were already loaded before the turn, as well as you cannot offload units to friendly land territories during Combat Movement, in any case)

4. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, a retreated transport cannot load nor offload anything applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it does, and a transport that retreated from combat cannot load, offload or move anymore at all, but I’ve no idea about the case he had units already loaded before the turn that were not sent into a sea borne assault)

[Midnight_Reaper]

@Cernel:

I’ve four questions about Axis&Allies Classic Second Edition.

Let’s see if I can shed some light on this.

@Cernel:

1. If I have a transport with 2 infantries already loaded before the turn, can I offload 1 of them into a hostile territory, during Combat Movement, then offload the second one during Non Combat Movement, and, if so, can I offload it to another territory and regardless whether the transport moved or not (bridging)? And how about any differences in case such transport also took part in a victorious sea battle?

There is nothing in the Classic Second Ed. rules that says you can’t unload in Combat Movement and again in Non-Combat Movement, provided you stay in the sea zone where you unloaded in Combat Movement. Page 16, Transports says: “ONCE A TRANSPORT UNLOADS, HOWEVER, ITS MOVE IS OVER!” (emphasis in original). A rulebook example of unloading in different territories is also given on page 16: “… if a transport was in the sea zone surrounding the United Kingdom, it could carry 1 infantry to Finland/Norway and 1 infantry to Western Europe …”

@Cernel:

2. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Combat Movement, you can load a transport you are sending to take part in a sea battle, without offloading it on the same phase, applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, could you, instead, load it and offload to a friendly land territory from the hostile sea zone, during Combat Movement? (I suppose it doesn’t, and there is no way you can both offload units into a friendly territory from a transport and use that same transport as fodder in an attack, unless the units were already loaded before the turn)

There is nothing in the Classic Second Ed. rules that says you can’t load a transport during Combat Movement. The restriction is that if a transport moves into a hostile sea zone, its movement stops. As for when you can unload a transport in a hostile sea zone, Page 15 Amphibious Assaults, says: “During an amphibious assault, if there are enemy naval units in the sea zone adjacent to the target coastal territory, all of your attacking naval units … [including] accompanying transports … must attack and defeat all enemy naval units in the zone before the transports move in to unload…” Therefore, you can’t load and unload your transport before naval combat takes place. Assuming you just want to move units from one friendly territory to another, you could send the transport in unloaded and fight the battle before moving the units in Non-Combat Movement. But, if you are attacking a hostile shore, you must load the transports with the attacking troops before fighting the naval battle to clear the sea zone before landing the troops on a hostile coastal territory.

@Cernel:

3. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, you can only either load or unload a transport that hasn’t offloaded any units yet and that has taken part in a victorious sea battle applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it doesn’t, and a transport that participated in combat cannot load or move anymore at all, but it can offload units that were already loaded before the turn, as well as you cannot offload units to friendly land territories during Combat Movement, in any case)

Page 16, Transports, says: “A transport can pick up cargo, move 1 or 2 sea zones, and unload the cargo all in the same move. THE CARGO CAN BE PICKED UP BEFORE, DURING, OR AFTER THE TRANSPORT MOVES.” (emphasis in original). Therefore, I would surmise that you can move a transport in Combat Movement, fight a battle, and then bridge units from one territory to another in Non-Combat Movement. You would have to note the restriction that once a sea units fights a naval battle, it can’t move again in Non-Combat Movement. Further, you could unload troops onto a friend shore in Non-Combat Movement after taking part in a Naval Battle, provided the transport’s side won the battle and retains control of the sea zone.

@Cernel:

4. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, a retreated transport cannot load nor offload anything applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it does, and a transport that retreated from combat cannot load, offload or move anymore at all, but I’ve no idea about the case he had units already loaded before the turn that were not sent into a sea borne assault)

There is nothing in the Classic Second Ed. rules that says you can’t unload a transport during Non-Combat Movement, even after a retreat, provided you don’t have to move to reach a place to unload in the first place. You can’t move the transport, but you can drop the cargo on a friendly named island in the same sea zone as the transport or a friendly coastal territory adjacent to the sea zone with the transport.

Does that help you, or are you still lost?

-Midnight_Reaper

[Cernel]

Actually hoping for an officially valid answer, if anyone around to give it. I just think the rulebook is not clear enough on most or all of these points; so one could read it one way or another.

On this point, instead:

Therefore, I would surmise that you can move a transport in Combat Movement, fight a battle, and then bridge units from one territory to another in Non-Combat Movement.

I’m fairly certain this is not allowed, as bridging is moving.

[aethervox]

@Cernel:

I’ve four questions about Axis&Allies Classic Second Edition.

1. If I have a transport with 2 infantries already loaded before the turn, can I offload 1 of them into a hostile territory, during Combat Movement, then offload the second one during Non Combat Movement, and, if so, can I offload it to another territory and regardless whether the transport moved or not (bridging)? And how about any differences in case such transport also took part in a victorious sea battle?
*** According to the MB classic rules (mine are MB 1985 publication date) you cannot offload infantry after you have already moved an infantry in a combat move (the amphibious landing). The infantry being already loaded is immaterial. An amphibious landing of even 1 infantry is considered a combat move. Once that happens that transport is done & another infantry on board cannot now make a non-combat move. This is from page 20 of the MB rules. It is clear that if you have a transport that uses even 1 infantry to effect an amphibious landing this is a combat move therefore you can’t then make a non-combat move with the other infantry. You can’t do both.
2. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Combat Movement, you can load a transport you are sending to take part in a sea battle, without offloading it on the same phase, applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, could you, instead, load it and offload to a friendly land territory from the hostile sea zone, during Combat Movement? (I suppose it doesn’t, and there is no way you can both offload units into a friendly territory from a transport and use that same transport as fodder in an attack, unless the units were already loaded before the turn)
*** I do not know exactly what you are referring to as Revised OOB rule, however, it is clear that a where there is a contested sea zone blocking an attack onto a land space that 1) the loaded transport(s) must accompany the attacking fleet. Only if the attacking fleet clears the sea zone & occupies it, then 2) an amphibious attack may be made into the adjacent land space. Thing is, that’s it for the infantry (&/or tanks). The Attacker commits what amphibious assaults & there is no non-combat move after this from any units left on any Transport (in this case). However, if the Attacker had any transport(s) that had not moved in the combat movement, then those infantry could land into a territory not subject to combat that turn. The only way two infantry on one transport can land in two different land spaces is if neither infantry (nor the transport) was in combat earlier in that turn.
3. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, you can only either load or unload a transport that hasn’t offloaded any units yet and that has taken part in a victorious sea battle applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it doesn’t, and a transport that participated in combat cannot load or move anymore at all, but it can offload units that were already loaded before the turn, as well as you cannot offload units to friendly land territories during Combat Movement, in any case)
*** What? A transport move is over it if engages in either a naval battle and/or an amphibious attack. If it is only non-combat movement the Transport can land infantry into two different land spaces. It does nor matter whether the Transport is loaded already or not, it can load (from 2 diff places, move it’s full move or not, load at anytime during this move & then unload at even 2 different land spaces so long as the Transport does not engage in a ‘combat move’ (either move for a naval battle and/or do an amphibious attack)
4. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, a retreated transport cannot load nor offload anything applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it does, and a transport that retreated from combat cannot load, offload or move anymore at all, but I’ve no idea about the case he had units already loaded before the turn that were not sent into a sea borne assault)
*** Retreats do not happen very often (in my experience). As retreats happen on another players turn, I surmise that a transport can do nothing but retreat to an adjacent space, either a sea zone or a land space. If a sea space that’s it for the transport. If retreating to a land space it is logical to assume any transported units would unload into that land space. Again that’s it. This retreat is not your turn, it’s someone else’s turn.
From memory, this is how I & my A&A player friends interpreted the MB classic rules. When you refer to OOBs, that’s normally just changes to the available forces (units) [not game rules per se]

[Krieghund]

@Cernel:

1. If I have a transport with 2 infantries already loaded before the turn, can I offload 1 of them into a hostile territory, during Combat Movement, then offload the second one during Non Combat Movement, and, if so, can I offload it to another territory and regardless whether the transport moved or not (bridging)? And how about any differences in case such transport also took part in a victorious sea battle?

A transport may not offload in both combat and noncombat movement.

@Cernel:

2. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Combat Movement, you can load a transport you are sending to take part in a sea battle, without offloading it on the same phase, applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, could you, instead, load it and offload to a friendly land territory from the hostile sea zone, during Combat Movement? (I suppose it doesn’t, and there is no way you can both offload units into a friendly territory from a transport and use that same transport as fodder in an attack, unless the units were already loaded before the turn)

You may not load a transport during combat movement unless it is for an amphibious assault.  You can only do what you describe by winning the sea battle (without the participation of the transport), then waiting until noncombat movement to load the transport, move it into the formerly hostile sea zone, then offloading into the friendly territory.

@Cernel:

3. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, you can only either load or unload a transport that hasn’t offloaded any units yet and that has taken part in a victorious sea battle applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it doesn’t, and a transport that participated in combat cannot load or move anymore at all, but it can offload units that were already loaded before the turn, as well as you cannot offload units to friendly land territories during Combat Movement, in any case)

If the transport moved and/or offloaded in combat movement or participated in combat, it can’t do anything in noncombat movement, including offload any units.

@Cernel:

4. Do the Revised OOB rule that, during Non Combat Movement, a retreated transport cannot load nor offload anything applies to Classic 2nd Edition too? If not, what could such a transport do? (I suppose it does, and a transport that retreated from combat cannot load, offload or move anymore at all, but I’ve no idea about the case he had units already loaded before the turn that were not sent into a sea borne assault)

Units may not be offloaded from a retreated transport during noncombat movement in the same turn, regardless of when they were loaded.

[Cernel]

Thanks. This is true all the same for the first, the second and the third editions of Classic, right? Is there somewhere a full list of all transport rules differences between Classic and Revised OOB. If not, I’m thinking to write one in the Revised subforum, if you can then check it if correct and complete.

[Krieghund]

@Cernel:

This is true all the same for the first, the second and the third editions of Classic, right?

Yes.

@Cernel:

Is there somewhere a full list of all transport rules differences between Classic and Revised OOB.

Not that I’m aware of.

[Cernel]

Another thing:

5. Can a transport move/load/unload (meaning either move only, or unload only, or move and unload only, or load and unload only, or move, load and unload, or load, move and unload) during Combat Movement if having an AA gun already loaded before the turn (of course, assuming the transport is going into a hostile sea zone, or it is making a sea borne assault with some other unit (it may or may not have been already loaded before the turn), or both)? (I know this is possible in Revised OOB, and I assume it is in Classic too)

[Cernel]

Of course, aside from the Iron Blitz sub-edition of the 3rd edition, the other unit would be an infantry only.

Side note, I’m not sure if this sub-forum is about Classic, or restricted to the 2nd edition of the same only, and I should talk about the 1st and 3rd edition in “Other Axis & Allies Variants”? That wouldn’t make sense to me, considering how close the 1st and 3rd editions are to the 2nd one.

[Cernel]

Never mind, for 1 minute I forgot that in Classic the AA gun takes up the whole space of the transport. Still, I would be interested to know how it would work if you could load 1 AA gun and 1 infantry in 1 transport (which you cannot), while everything else being Classic 2nd Edition rules, even tho I realize this is not relevant for the actual game.

[Cernel]

So, the question would be actually this one:

5. Can a transport move during Combat Movement if having an AA gun already loaded before the turn (of course, assuming the transport is going into a hostile sea zone)? (I know this is possible in Revised OOB, and I assume it is in Classic too) (if it is possible, I understand we already clarified the AA gun would be unable to unload during the subsequent Non Combat Movement phase)

[Krieghund]

@Cernel:

5. Can a transport move during Combat Movement if having an AA gun already loaded before the turn (of course, assuming the transport is going into a hostile sea zone)? (I know this is possible in Revised OOB, and I assume it is in Classic too) (if it is possible, I understand we already clarified the AA gun would be unable to unload during the subsequent Non Combat Movement phase)

Yes.

[Cernel]

Another question:
6. If I have rockets, can an AA gun in a transport offload during Combat Movement, to make its special attack, on that turn?

[Panther]

@Cernel said in Axis&Allies Classic 2nd Edition Transports Rules Questions:

Another question:
6. If I have rockets, can an AA gun in a transport offload during Combat Movement, to make its special attack, on that turn?

Or from the transport’s point of view:
Would the transport be allowed to unload the AA gun into a friendly territory during Combat Movement Phase, @Krieghund?
Would that imply the introduction of a sort of “Amphibious (pre-rocket-attack supporting) Landing” (instead of an Amphibious Assault into a hostile territory), then?

[Krieghund]

@Cernel said in Axis&Allies Classic 2nd Edition Transports Rules Questions:

6. If I have rockets, can an AA gun in a transport offload during Combat Movement, to make its special attack, on that turn?

Yes. According to the Rules Clarifications document, “Unlike an antiaircraft gun, a rocket can move before combat and fire during combat.”

@Panther said in Axis&Allies Classic 2nd Edition Transports Rules Questions:

Or from the transport’s point of view:
Would the transport be allowed to unload the AA gun into a friendly territory during Combat Movement Phase, @Krieghund?

Yes, as an AA gun can never move into a hostile territory.

@Panther said in Axis&Allies Classic 2nd Edition Transports Rules Questions:

Would that imply the introduction of a sort of “Amphibious (pre-rocket-attack supporting) Landing” (instead of an Amphibious Assault into a hostile territory), then?

No.

[Panther]

@Krieghund Thank you. Very interesting how a technological breakthrough affects other core game rules here.