A&A Deluxe Edition

[Adlertag]

@Imperious:

I agree with everybody get rid of victory cities because they are arbitrary. Hitler didn’t start his war to capture “cities” he wanted to conquer nations in Europe and had no connection to what Japan was doing insofar……

Now if my memory serve me well I do belive we discussed nation specific winning conditions in this thread, my Hun “friend” ( I’ll never forget what your granny did to my granny) :

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=467&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Bitte erinderen ?

[Crazy Ivan]

:|
For tourneyment play, I like the sudden death victory conditions that are in Risk.
Each player secretly draws a sudden death victory condition card for there country, let’s say their are five for each country for arguements sake.
The first player to achieve their victory conditions, wins. No chance for their opponent to break them, with one more player turn, it is over, period. The winner moves on to the next round,  :lol: and the loser, goes to find another game to play. :cry:

[Imperious Leader]

Reprinted from Feb 17 2005:

This is what hes talking about and i fully agree with these points except it needs work for Italian military objectives.

Since this as an advanced game for adult gamers, not only the combat rules, but also the winning conditions must reflect real ww2 as close as possible. To just capture most winning point cities will make a balanced and beautiful “Build an Empire” game, but it will not reflect ww2 in a historical correct nor justified way.

Since the allies and the axis had different war goals , this must be implemented in the winning conditions of this game too.

AXIS WIN

*The axis player that first reach his “Empire building” goals, end the game and are the individual winner.

*The German player must occupy all territories from France to Ural. This was the historical “Lebensraum” goal. (12 territories)
*The Italian player must occupy all territories that once was part of the Roman Empire. (12 territories)
*The Japanese player must occupy all territories in Pacific and E.Asia. (12 territories)

ALLIES WIN

*When the allied players have eliminated Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito (new plastic pieces, or tokens at least), the game end. This reflect the Nuremberg Trials to the war criminal leaders that committed genocide. Once a leader is eliminated, his country is out of the war.

*UK and USA win as a team, since their war goal was “Status que ante bellum”. They got 1 victory point for each liberated neutral minor.
*Soviet win individually. Her war goal was world communism, and she got 1 victory point for each occupied neutral minor or axis territory.

This differentiated winning conditions will reflect the history more correct, do remember that one purpose of this game are to remember history. This is advanced, it don’t need to be balanced. I don’t think it will be too complicated either.

I love the all Allied Turn and all Axis Turn. They can fight as allies, but win individually. Team victories are boring, much more fun to back-stabb your allies. Also Tournaments need individual winners.

[tekkyy]

@Imperious:

I agree with everybody get rid of victory cities because they are arbitrary. Hitler didn’t start his war to capture “cities” he wanted to conquer nations in Europe and had no connection to what Japan was doing insofar as japan was also fighting German enemies.
So naturally Historical victory conditions go in place. Then everybody can win as a nation and not as a team. And then you wont have to keep having one person play 3 nations as one.

Its not that bad. The victory cities are inside territories/nations so it does so some of what you said.

But of course I still like individual victory for the diplomacy aspect. More human interactions.

[Imperious Leader]

But of course I still like individual victory for the diplomacy aspect. More human interactions.

I am totally for this, except some people think the game is basically one guy plays 3 nations and has no idea that its anything but home study technique, volumes of combat calculations ( mostly written down)  and the idea of “partners” is always a distasteful and unwanted prospect.

For them 3 nations play like one army with perfect clarity all guided by one general,without any idea that the war he is simulating had none of this but a loose, fragmented, and distrustful unity of efforts. Each nation had specific political as well as military objectives to pursue and of which this has never been addressed except lightly in earlier days when people played the nova games edition and the Milton Bradley edition online and OTB… A piece of the game lost by burgeoning tournaments and people who didn’t want the partners to mess up their game with “bad moves”

Ahh but the excitement was always the ability to persuade others to join in on some plan for your own help on their plan.
On this level the diplomacy was always lively. National and individual victory conditions make for shorter games, because they don’t require 3 nations to accomplish that dreaded “team thing” which was a farther goal to achieve ( hence longer games)

I hope the game can bring some of that back.

[newpaintbrush]

@Imperious:

But of course I still like individual victory for the diplomacy aspect. More human interactions.

I am totally for this, except some people think the game is basically one guy plays 3 nations and has no idea that its anything but home study technique, volumes of combat calculations ( mostly written down)  and the idea of “partners” is always a distasteful and unwanted prospect.

For them 3 nations play like one army with perfect clarity all guided by one general,without any idea that the war he is simulating had none of this but a loose, fragmented, and distrustful unity of efforts. Each nation had specific political as well as military objectives to pursue and of which this has never been addressed except lightly in earlier days when people played the nova games edition and the Milton Bradley edition online and OTB… A piece of the game lost by burgeoning tournaments and people who didn’t want the partners to mess up their game with “bad moves”

Ahh but the excitement was always the ability to persuade others to join in on some plan for your own help on their plan.
On this level the diplomacy was always lively. National and individual victory conditions make for shorter games, because they don’t require 3 nations to accomplish that dreaded “team thing” which was a farther goal to achieve ( hence longer games)

I hope the game can bring some of that back.

Yeah, secret random objectives, make it shorter, make it more individually oriented with five generals instead of “One General”.

I’m one of those with the home study technique, combat calculations, and idea of “partners” as icky.  But I think the game as it is really demands that sort of play if you want to play it well or understand how to play it well.

[tekkyy]

yeah most of the time the game is played by 2 players for quite a number of reasons

but there are also fans of the otherwise calculation based play style
hence we see some 5 player games and free for all games played on this forum

maybe Delxue would have more victory conditions to cater for home, tournament and even history loving fans of axis and allies

[frimmel]

@Imperious:

For them 3 nations play like one army with perfect clarity all guided by one general,without any idea that the war he is simulating had none of this but a loose, fragmented, and distrustful unity of efforts.

Welll that is the difficult balance isn’t it? Between soemthing fun to play and a good history lesson?

[Adlertag]

@Craig:

IL- Who is that quote from and where is the original located?

Craig

In case you are asking me, he is quoteing Adlertag, and the original is located at Harris game design, Advanced section, 3th stage or something, I posted the link in my post previous to IL, but the place seems to be down today

[Imperious Leader]

http://www.harrisgamedesign.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=467&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

it is here.

glad to help. BTW did you ever get the dice towers done with that decal i send you. And secondly, which tournament is Larry officially showing up at?  Do you think the deluxe game will be demoed?

I may land on your planet and have a look myself. I just don’t know where to park my Battlestar. :roll:

[Imperious Leader]

Its strange. The link was working yesterday but now its not. So i cant find the supporting documentation, but ill look.