Standardization of Dice Colors

[MeinHerr]

Hello Mates,  (seek your pardon if this has been discussed before)

When playing a Global game (in person), one of the simplest ways to expedite the game is to roll dice as few times as possible.
The problem I have encountered is that different groups tend to have different color codes. Some players go for fancy combat dice. Doing this really really slows the game.
Opposing teams in same game have different color combinations!

When each team is using a different convention, there is likelihood that come “hits” could be missed  by the players… or … conversely, be counted, when there were none.  Even a single wrongly counted hit could influence the final game result .

So each time the dice are rolled, each side has to use precious time to consult the color code and this leads to needless waste of time.

I think, it is time to come to a consensus on a single convention for dice colors.

We can vote here on this forum and discuss pros and cons, but once done, we go with the majority vote.  Makes life easier for everyone across the world.

Few things to remember BEFORE YOU VOTE!

There are some demographic groups that have a greater number of color-blindness.
The highest propensity is for the red-green color blindness.
But, please keep in mind traffic lights across the world still use Red and Green.

Black and White dice seem to have the least problems associated with them.
Followed by Blue and Yellow.

Most commonly owned and used dice colors I have seen are Black, White, Red, Blue and Green.

Most commonly used dice rolls are :2 followed by 1 followed by 3 … then 4 (2>1>3>4)
(At least in games I have played) or it could be 1>2>3>4

So logically, in my humble opinion,  we should go for (For counting as “hits”)
White as 1
Black  as 2  (and 1)
Blue as 3 (and 2,1)
All other colors Green or Red or Yellow etc as 4 (3,2,1)

But, lots of people may tend to have lots of opinions… and color blindness may be completely absent from our playing group.

Please vote as well as please voice your opinion.

Cheers,

Mein Herr

PS: My favored convention was always  White(1), Blue (2), Red (3),Black (4)

PSS: To simplify the discussion , the “order” of colors indicate the “order” of hits…
eg: White, Blue, Red ,  Black  — means the above… 1,2,3,4

[MeinHerr]

The separate rolling of the 1s, 2s, 3s, 4s  makes it that the game only goes for 5-6 TURNS a day.  ( A TURN =  Germany start to France ending in Global game)
Reason is that one spends an average of 10 seconds- extra per roll….  and average rolls involved about 3 different “strengths” (1,2,3 or 4)
  Looking at it, a couple of rounds of combat rolling… separately …makes it take at least 1 minute extra per combat.

In tournaments, you could play players you have never met before.  They may want to do the 4s,3s,2s,1s,  rather than 1s.2s.3s,4s,

And some players tend to be very obstinate on how they go about their combat rolls…  even if they are told that the separate multiple rolling is going to results in Less TURNS being played in the game.

I have seen it this happen for 5 years.  This post is mainly for players who are not familiar with each other.

If you look at the mechanics of dice rolling:
A) There are about 15-22 combats the first turn, about 12-18  combats the second, and then about 14 combats on an average every turn. Lets keep it to 16 combats a turn for 6 TURNS  - average.
B) Hence if a standard game for 6 TURNS , you are looking at 96 combats… let us round it to 100 (for AAA shots and Strat/Tac bombings)
C) Hence a saving (1 min per combat) is  100 minutes , that is equivalent to playing 2  EXTRA TURNS. 
D) We are not even talking about MEGA- combats  like Pacific Fleet battles or a Bryansk/Moscow battle, or a Sealion or J3 India crush battle.  These could add-up to using even more time for that turn.

Should players be of good caliber, and evenly matched , with the bid/handicap , then a 7-8 TURN game on an average is better at predicting the winning side compared to a 5-6 TURN game.

There are miscellaneous factors that i have not mentioned as a J4 / Allied Pac DOW on Japan scenario,… where US does not get into the game till US4… and then when the game “ends” 2 TURNS later due to lack of time…  it makes for a very dubious result.

Also, this prevents players/losing side  from “running out the clock”…

In tournaments, you play a completely different game the next day, maybe with different players.

Hence to get a better conclusion as to which side “won”  , saving time using multiple colored dice , AND ,  having ONE standard colored dice convention goes a Long way.

[AndrewAAGamer]

Personally I have found rolling multiple dice at a time is actually slower than rolling each grouping by itself.

It does not take much time to grab eight dice and roll 1s, then fourteen dice and roll 2s then grab 6 dice and roll 3s.  It is easy to count the number of dice needed to roll and then roll them looking for just one result.  Also many times you can stop halfway through because you have obtained enough hits to eliminate the defender.

Multiple group rolling requires picking up more dice than a typical hand can hold and double and triple checking you have the right number of each dice and then rolling.  The amount of time it takes to then figure out what are hits and what are not, in my opinion, is far greater than what was saved by rolling once versus 2-4 times.

[MeinHerr]

AAgamer-

It does take longer when you do them separately.

If your hand cannot hold that many dice, you use a cup , close the top, shake it and throw. Done.

Maybe only when you use an actual timer , will you understand how much the me is consumed picking up each set of dice, adjust quantity and re-roll for the next number.

That is for the attacker…. imagine then the defender going through the same process.

The more complex the battle, the longer it takes with multiple rolls.

This is time wasted for an absurd reason.

In timed games… time should be used in planning moves, Buys , Combat and non-combat… than … but should be used efficiently during the Combat phase.

Yes, the timer/clock “stops” during Combat phase… but… the actual time taken can be significantly reduced.

Just take an example of 2 simple battles and you will get what I say:

1. Attack by Germans on Paris , on G1
2. Attack on SZ111 by Germans , on G1

Compare the times used for single number rolls versus color dice rolls.
You will understand the difference.

[Leatherneckinlv]

I like Siredbloods hit dice…colors
Whites  1
Reds  2
Blues  3
Greens  4

but honestly I don’t care what color the dice are as long as they are understood…and displayed properly as to reduce confusion what is what

[Tjoek]

We use white, yellow, orange and red in that order from 1 to 4.
The higher the number the darker the dice are, but I know this color scheme might not be the best from color distinction point of view. Nontheless it works flawlessly for our group.

Another option I thought about was following the colors from the chips (we use blue chips for 10s). That way it is easy to understand what color to pick knowing the colors for the chips:
white (close to grey), green, red, blue in that order from 1 to 4

[AxisAndAllies1940]

In G36, red dice for the Comintern, white dice for the Allies, and black for the Axis.

[MeinHerr]

Exactly my point. But not everybody has Sired Blood’s custom dice  …. though I do like the concept of the Sired Blood Dice.
Just that we should come to an agreement on color at some point to have a common standard going forward at most tournaments.
Hence this post.
I mean, when we play , it ought to be superquick and we ought not to be wasting a single moment thinking about what colors are 1, 2, 3, or 4.
Be it whether we play A&A in Canada, Japan, Europe or US.
It should be automatic.
  And colored dice with an agreed convention will really speed things up.
At present the Combat phase in live games takes up way too much time… much more than it really should.

This is not a very hard thing to do…  just that folks should grasp that
A) Colored dice do speed things up
B) A single color convention agreed by all makes it easy for everyone.

[variance]

Roll them separately, but roll the 4s, then the 3s, then the 2s, and finally the 1s.  That speeds it up a lot compared to 1, 2, 3, 4.

[robbie358]

I prefer
White (or Green) 1s
Blue 2s
Red 3s
Black 4s

Not everyone does that so I just lay it out before the game starts.
Sorry we didn’t connect the other day. I called and noone answered.

[MarshmallowofWar]

This will actually slow down play, as people take time to pull the right color dice for their throw and will constantly be sorting dice off to the side and not paying attention to the game. Also, those of you who do roll this way will waste additional time trying to convince us that your way is “faster”, and you’ll be asked questions every round about the results because we don’t use your die rolling method.

Your poll didn’t include an option for, “This won’t actually speed up play.” and/or “I’ll roll the dice in whatever way I please”, which it should have.

Also, not everyone uses 3mm dice. For many people smaller dice are harder to read, and the average age of players seems to be getting older.

Marsh

[MarshmallowofWar]

@AndrewAAGamer:

It does not take much time to grab eight dice and roll 1s, then fourteen dice and roll 2s then grab 6 dice and roll 3s.  It is easy to count the number of dice needed to roll and then roll them looking for just one result.

This, in my opinion, is the fastest way to roll dice.

Marsh

[Tjoek]

@Marshmallow:

@AndrewAAGamer:

It does not take much time to grab eight dice and roll 1s, then fourteen dice and roll 2s then grab 6 dice and roll 3s.  It is easy to count the number of dice needed to roll and then roll them looking for just one result.

This, in my opinion, is the fastest way to roll dice.

Marsh

Just curious, have you ever played with hit dice? For us it really speeds up game play.

[MarshmallowofWar]

Yep, and it’s the exact opposite of speeding game play.

[Kreuzfeld]

No convention, either it is obvious what is what (like rolling 3 red and 1 white when there are 3 infs and 1 ftr), or I call it out before rolling. If i haven’t called out, and it is not obvious, the entire roll is void, no matter what.

[MeinHerr]

The whole world came to an agreement on the Colors of Traffic lights.
Red means Stop! Green means Go! Yellow means Slow, it’s going to Change.
People conceded their right to have their favorite color , in the interest of prevent chaos and so that traffic can goo smooth and fast. Correct?

While playing Triple A, the computer does dice rolls super-fast, so you see how fast the game progresses.

In real life live-games, when both sides roll and re-roll… laboriously…  and even separately…(1,2,3,4) combat by combat… do you guys not see how much longer the game takes because of this single decision?

Most combats are going to go usually through 2 rolls and use 2-3 different strengths of units…

Do you not see how this stretches out the game?

Seriously, we are intelligent people here and can figure out that repeatedly throwing and collecting dice to roll 4 times per side -usually twice- per Combat  is going to take much longer than 2 rolls of multicolored dice…

That is the first point .

Then comes the second… our elementary school hang-up about colors!!!

Let us be adults about this…

We have our favorite colors granted, but come on… these are not sacrosanct.
They are just dice with varied colors.

Yes, common sense is important too… like Not voiding a roll that is made with the obvious combination.  (As Krutzfeld has described).

That being said… it is the exception to the rule.

Once we agree to even tryout common color convention  … (every tournament can have its common color standards to start… at least to try this out)…  things will go much faster.

Folks, I know Iam not talking to people of average intellect here. To play A&A well… you have to have the ability to think faster and more complex than an average person.

Just look at the results of voting above… and other comments on rolling separately…

Surely you understand why we should at least try it out.

[MarshmallowofWar]

@MeinHerr:

Let us be adults about this…

Yep, let’s do that.

First, traffic lights exist because real property and lives are on the line. Comparing die roll colors to traffic light colors is specious.

Second, if it’s taking you that long to roll your dice, clear the box, and calculate the results then you’re doing something wrong. You compound the error when you insist that having everyone do it the way you do it will fix your problem. If you want the game to go fast, it’s really simple to A) get your builds ready in advance, B) plan your moves in advance, and C) expedite combat by communicating clearly and openly with your opponent with a minimum of side chatter.

Marsh

[Kreuzfeld]

I do play some other games where a convention like this is needed. In the game called “World in flames” you have groundstrikes, where you try to disrupt enemy formations with airplanes. there can be up to three enemy formations in a single area, and it is important to know which is hit. They are stacked on top of eachother, so we have a standard we call “red, white and blue” (same color as the norwegian flag, and the common way of saying it).

[MeinHerr]

Lol, so you are saying throwing 4 times and clearing the box 4 times is faster then throwing only once and clearing only once?

And yes 3mm dice are the way to go the huge dice that came with the game are just way to large to be properly used. Any accendental bounce on the board is end of game with those huge dice 3mm dice hardly move pieces around.

If you cant read the result on 3mm dice how do you see the difference between cruisers / destroyers /transports anyway.

But it isnt only the dice but also board upkeep that saves time, big multi round combats require you to constantly remove pieces from the battleboard ( if you even use it ) and swap chips out because you have a red chip but need to remove 3 units from it.
Say for instance you got a stack of 6 inf ( red + unit ) and take 3 hits.
In your situation you have to get the chips and replace them with the right amount, then pick up 3 dice and throw them
in my situation i just take 3 dice from my hand and roll the next round.
I dont have to move to the board, i dont have to put pieces in the trays i just remove dice from my hand.

Or a real situation, germany attacks yugoslavia, in my case the defender takes just 5 dice for 2s and we can go, no need to swap in pieces we can do that if germany pulls out of not no pieces ever get on the board for the neutrals.

Teflon called it “The Boneyard “ 😀

As long as you go for a total fight to death - Combat, it’s fine doing this. Applies to most cases. The few exceptions would be …

1. If as USSR, you want to do a tactical strafe and retreat… or
2. With Naval Combat , as US you just want to tip Japanese CZvs… so that UK/ANZAC/France can deal the 2-3-4 blows… etc

Then actual unit damage/removal is necessary to know when to retreat.

But all in all… at some point, someone will have to do a YouTube video of 2 identical combats… One with Colored Dice… One without… then extrapolate the time saving to about 80-90 more and we might be able to convince those who doubt the time savings with
Colored dice …

[Elsaß-Lorraine]

Of course it is faster to roll once, count hits once, and clear the dice tray once rather than doing that process up to 3 more times per side. The issue here is that we don’t need, in my opinion, to have an all-encompassing “rule” per se that standardizes what colors of dice people use. There’s no difference between using a black die or a white die for ones, twos, threes, whatever,  they both need to/should be given the ok by an opponent so that no disputes based on color come up. There’s no need to attempt to regulate something that is already either regulated on a per-game basis or not used altogether (most people do not roll all their dice at once, and they are perfectly fine with adding a few minutes to the game)