I read that, and is one of my sources. Funny enough, KaLeu put a link to Quora asking the same question, and one of the answers just copied and pasted the article you sent me.
Nazi Germany VS The Soviet Union
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Heheh, if somehow an assassin’s bomb/bullets had taken out Hitler and his top generals early on in the war, Germany could EASILY of beaten the Soviet Union. Most of the problem with beating the Soviets was Hitler’s insistence on running EVERYTHING, coupled to many terrible strategic decisions and blunders he made (trying to hold EVERY inch of ground gained in a country 1/4 the size of the planet). The head of the SS Himmler was no help either, his SS divisions were the main reason why partisans sprang up everywhere after the Germans rolled through; initially many Russians welcomed the Germans as liberators.
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Also you guys are forgetting that STALIN was Hitler’s opponent. Stalin was as slavishly enamored to Hitler as Hitler was to Mussolini. Stalin approved a purge of the Soviet military in 1937 that got rid of like 90% of his capable generals; he was so paranoid of his own people he destroyed most of his military power before the war even began. Tales of Soviet idiocy from their ill-fated invasion of Finland in 1938 tell volumes. Stalin also believed and trusted Hitler; he completely ignored German troop-build up warnings by his general staff and continued sending supplies by train to Germany across the 1939 polish border the very DAY Hitler invaded Russia. Stalin also had a complete mental breakdown after Barbarossa was started and wasn’t even available to lead for the first two weeks following the invasion.
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My Grades:
Man Power: USSR
Air Power: Germany
Artillery: USSR
Tanks: USSR
Training: Germany
Navy: Draw
International Support: GermanyThe Germans did not have the wealth of humans as the Soviets had. General Paulus in 1942 said that he could encircle and destroy a soviet army only to have another one take it place with little effort.
I believe the USSR wins. The Soviets had the T-34 and KV-1 when the Germans still had the Panzer III as a frontline machine. The Soviets could mass produce these tanks.
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@ABWorsham:
The Soviets had the T-34 and KV-1 when the Germans still had the Panzer III as a frontline machine.
But that was only for the first year, and the Germans still kicked a$$.
is it not strange that the halting of the German advance coincides with the US’s entry into the war?
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@ABWorsham:
The Soviets had the T-34 and KV-1 when the Germans still had the Panzer III as a frontline machine.
But that was only for the first year, and the Germans still kicked a$$.
is it not strange that the halting of the German advance coincides with the US’s entry into the war?
The Germans were able to advance dramatically again in 1942 though. I don’t think the major impact of US involvement came till the middle of that year - and the need by Germany to support Italy in North Africa. By 1943 large amounts of German armour were being pulled from the eastern front to save Italy itself. The 1941 defeat of the Germans had two architects - Hitler and the Russian winter.
However - it is fair to say that once the US was at war with JAPAN - the Russians knew that their back door was safe for a while enabling to concentrate force that had previously been in limbo awaiting a possible Japanese invasion.
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Definitely. Also if Germany had decided to ONLY go against the Soviet Union at the very beginning, I’m sure most of the Western Powers would have been just fine to let them go right at it! The USSR wasn’t very well received amongst the rest of the world in 1939; in fact, it took WWII to raise Russia to a world superpower from the outcast backwater it was in the 1930’s.
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Everyone is assuming that the beginning of the war between Germany and the USSR would play out as it did in the summer of 1941. Had Germany faced a Red Army prepared on the German/Russian border the results of 1941 may have been different.
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@ABWorsham:
Everyone is assuming that the beginning of the war between Germany and the USSR would play out as it did in the summer of 1941. Had Germany faced a Red Army prepared on the German/Russian border the results of 1941 may have been different.
I think it would not matter…The Germans learned from their mistakes in poland really quick and the involvement of Division Brandenburg was a big plus, too…at this time the russians still thought that Tanks have only a secondary role…Do not forget that in allready 1 and 1/2 week the German Luftwaffe had air superiority…Even if Russia would have prepared for war ,(what they kinda did) it wouldn’t be like a defence into the deep and tank regiments split up all over the front…
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The Germans had great praise for the hardiness of the common Soviet soilder. The hardships of the hammer and sickle bred good fighters. The Germans had better units, no doubt, however the U.S.S.R had millions of tough volka drinking men. Don’t confuse the Czarist army with that of the Soviet Red Army.
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I’m aware of what you mean, but if you read the battles won by Germany in Stalino,Mariupol,Kiev and Sevastopol and so on ,considerations like -what would have happend against an prepared enemy? wouldn’t come up at all, I’m anyway wondering why nobody in here is not talking about certain battles where a diffrent outcome would have changed a lot more…fact based…for example the pocket of crementshug '44, uman encirclement '41, charkov '43 & '44 ,Falaise '44 Caen’44 tons of places wich could change a lot or only slightliest even certain characters like Timoshenkov,Nikita Khrushchev,Zhukov,Patton,Monty,Bradly, Pappa Hauser,Panzer Mayer and so on I don’t know…I don’t mean to be rude but philosophing about whether or not the american would join europe theatre in a question yet where all the people in here haven’t Identified what they know about Pacific and european theatre war leads probably to those missunderstandings where point blank somebody puts his opinion in and somebody else takes it too serious and arguing over and over about it…No offence like I said just wish to talk the talk and not to circumsize the fact and mix it up w. 2009…
I appologize for any hurt feelings sorry but I had to let it out!.. -
@aequitas:
I’m aware of what you mean, but if you read the battles won by Germany in Stalino,Mariupol,Kiev and Sevastopol and so on ,considerations like -what would have happend against an prepared enemy? wouldn’t come up at all, I’m anyway wondering why nobody in here is not talking about certain battles where a diffrent outcome would have changed a lot more…fact based…for example the pocket of crementshug '44, uman encirclement '41, charkov '43 & '44 ,Falaise '44 Caen’44 tons of places wich could change a lot or only slightliest even certain characters like Timoshenkov,Nikita Khrushchev,Zhukov,Patton,Monty,Bradly, Pappa Hauser,Panzer Mayer and so on I don’t know…I don’t mean to be rude but philosophing about whether or not the american would join europe theatre in a question yet where all the people in here haven’t Identified what they know about Pacific and european theatre war leads probably to those missunderstandings where point blank somebody puts his opinion in and somebody else takes it too serious and arguing over and over about it…No offence like I said just wish to talk the talk and not to circumsize the fact and mix it up w. 2009…
I appologize for any hurt feelings sorry but I had to let it out!..No problem here, I just like keeping a great topic alive.
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I think Germany would win…eventually. It would cost them a tremendous amount of troops. They would be exhausted and depleted.
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I watched part of a history channel, Battle of Stalingrad and they pointed out that the German troops were wearing summer uniform compared to the winter gear that the Russians had. I wonder how many German troops were lost due to the weather.
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Hundreds of Thousands of troops.
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I vote Russia due to manpower and the harsh weather.
@ABWorsham:
Hundreds of Thousands of troops.
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IF Italy had not screwed up so badly they wouldnt have cost the germans time…which led them to invade during the wrong time of year.
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IF Italy had not screwed up so badly they wouldnt have cost the germans time…which led them to invade during the wrong time of year.
That’s a good poll question.
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thanks! I have no clue how to start those though
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Invaded Russia too early and in the wrong month.
he got sidetracked trying to take Stalingrad etc.
Coulda woulda but yes, he could of taken Russia.
Germany could of taken Britain too, if Hitler let his Generals run the war.
Good thing for Hiltler’s blunders. -
@marine36:
But you see, Roosevelt wanted war with Germany, to help his buddy Stalin, so it would have happened eventually.
And I do believe the Tommies whipped Rommel all by there lonesome at El Alamean, though it is doubtful such success would have lasted once he got back to Tunisia and was reinforced.
The 6th Army. Yes, it was a significant number of men. A quarter of a million Germans is nothing to sneeze at! Personally, I don’t think moral is a factor in modern warfare, at least it isnt in the Corp, but you may be right there as well. It is reasonable to assume that the German soldiers are different from U.S. Marines, and are still affected by moral.
Rampant behavior of rape and murder? I am certain SS divisions maintained their dicipline in Russia, it was not until after the fighting had ended in an area and the soldiers had moved on than Himmler would move in with his death squads. The men of the SS where fine soldiers, do not label all of them barbarians for the actions of Himmler. Perhaps you have information that proves otherwise? Well, despite Himmler’s ruthless treatment of Russians, many Russians still did side with the Germans.
the SS were bastards, the waffen-SS were just foreigners. Can understand them a bit: who doesn’t hate RUSSIAN communists?
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