@krieghund Your answer and the FAQ are super helpful – thank you!
No income islands
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I think the question is do you want to have a 16 IPC carrier that can hold those 2 fighters giving you 3 really good defense shots, or a 0 IPC island to hold those 2 fighters that give you no defense shots?
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New Paint Brush did you read this?
Lets take this scenario for a spin around the ball room shall we: lets say the US and  has FTR’s on the worthless Wake Island. Japan has a sizeable force on the worthless Solomon Islands. The US also has a fleet off the coast of Hawaii with a butt load of INF and ARM. On the US combat move they choose to take down Japan’s troops b/c they have a bigger navy 2 turns away with all the TRN’s they need to get them off. The US has a smaller Navy but a bigger Army. Unless the US has CV’s they can’t even use the FTR’s b/c its 1 space to the adjacent SZ 2 spaces to the SZ adjacent to Japan’s Army, and 3 spaces to Japan’s Army. So as far as the safe haven idea goes if you have the FTR’s jettison the CV’s to a nearby friendly island for fear you Navy is going down you just stranded them if you don’t have neighboring island to get them out. And like I said before one of the exceptions of taking a no income island is if the enemy has high $ units left unprotected. (like FTR’s). So now you just sold out your own troops.
-LT04
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Lost Tribe,
The idea of landing your fighters on nearby friendly islands was only after the naval battle. Those fighters would be sitting on the ac, and if the fleet is attacked, and if I select my ac as a casualty, and if my opponent is destroyed or withdraws while I still have fighters left, then my fighters are allowed 1 movement to find a friendly landing spot. That is where the friendly island comed in. If I didn’t capture the island on my previous turn, then in this situation my fighters would splash because there would be no friendly landing spot within 1 move of my defending fighters.
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Oh, I got the impression New paint brush didn’t use CV’s I missunderstood.
I was saying how a FTR can’t make it from one space to another and back (like SFE to attack Alaska and return) without CV’s.
-LT04
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Lets take this scenario for a spin around the ball room shall we: lets say the US and has FTR’s on the worthless Wake Island. Japan has a sizeable force on the worthless Solomon Islands. The US also has a fleet off the coast of Hawaii with a butt load of INF and ARM. On the US combat move they choose to take down Japan’s troops b/c they have a bigger navy 2 turns away with all the TRN’s they need to get them off. The US has a smaller Navy but a bigger Army. Unless the US has CV’s they can’t even use the FTR’s b/c its 1 space to the adjacent SZ 2 spaces to the SZ adjacent to Japan’s Army, and 3 spaces to Japan’s Army. So as far as the safe haven idea goes if you have the FTR’s jettison the CV’s to a nearby friendly island for fear you Navy is going down you just stranded them if you don’t have neighboring island to get them out. And like I said before one of the exceptions of taking a no income island is if the enemy has high $ units left unprotected. (like FTR’s). So now you just sold out your own troops.
-LT04
I can’t really respond to this, b/c I’m not sure the hypothetical fits, it might be a bit too unrealistic.
Why would Japan have a large force on Sol to begin with, how and why did it get there? Â And why did the trans just leave them?
More likely Japan would have invaded Hawaii instead on Sol.
If the US has a massive army in HI, why don’t they just invade SZ 60 or Japan instead?I’m not necessarily advocating large scale invasions of the islands, but I do know that Sol, Wake, Mid, and Car all hold stragetic purposes given the right strat.
Wake allows US bombers to go from Mos to sz 60 then land in Wake. Â Oki can be too hard to get sometimes, since Japan is well aware of the US Navy sitting in at Hi, Wake, or Sol.
No. There is no significant advantage to worthless islands as you can easily by-pass them taking valuable land.
For instance, the Pacific Southern Route:
W. USA to Hawaii to Australia to E. Indies to Borneo to Philippines
Why would you go that way, when Wus sz to Sol to (Bor, EI, or Phil) is a lot quicker?
Pending Jap/US strat I find Sol, Wake, and Midway all very valuable, esp when you are trying to take away landing spots for attacking aircraft (or giving yourself extra landing spots).
EDIT:
The Car Islands can also be extremely useful.
It’s faster, but it also extends you faster and puts you out of position.
However, if you hit Hawaii first and then get hit by a Japanese fleet and lose, your soldiers are guarding land that is valuable, not useless. They’re also in an easily retrievable area. Not to mention you can easily change direction to hit Japan herself and thus you lock the Japanese fleet in SZ 60 for at least a turn.
Sol puts you in better position to threaten Bor, EI, and Phil all at once as well as Sz 60. Â Japan can’t protect them all.
Midway - can serve a similar purpose as Wake only for Japan. Â Hawaii is preferrable but if US heavily defends HI, then Mid is nice substitute.
Car - is nice b/c it threatens just about every important zone in the Pacific, including some mainland Asia spots.
My point about additional landing spots is, you need to take out almost all the islands regardless of worth, b/c if you don’t then 2 AC’s can support 8 ftrs (not 4). Â If you only take out the islands worth 1 or more, you leave too many holes for attack planes to land. Â Remember they don’t actually have to land there they just need a spot to land to engage in the naval battle.
And owning Wake, for example could mean quite a bit of difference in the number of ftrs that can be brought in.
Consider this (US owns wake):
4 US ftrs, 1 bom in Mos
4 ftrs, 2 AC at Sol sz
2 ftrs, 1 AC at Wus szThat is 11 planes that can attack and all can land somewhere.
You usually don’t have to fight over the island itself, but the sz that holds the island.
Once you kill or trap the opposing Navy (in a Pac strat) the islands, ipc or no ipc, will fall eventually too, but to get the 3,4,4 islands you need the 0 ones as US. Â And as Japan, it is better to prevent the US move to Sol, HI, or Wake rather than wait and then have to be concerned with losing your big islands. -
Generally speaking, Japan can sink the US Navy easier at Solomon Islands and strand America’s ground forces on a worthless island.
Believe me, I’d rather have 5 American INfnatry and 3 American tanks on Solomon Islands then Hawaii. :P
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Darth, you said how Cor Islands could be a nice place to anchor a Navy b/c of the strategic location of getting to just about any where in the Pacific, well if Japan has a Navy any where in the Pacific they can very easily get to you as well. I would rather chose my encounters with a OP4 Navy then place myself centrally like that so they can chose their encounter with me.
-LT04
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Darth, you said how Cor Islands could be a nice place to anchor a Navy b/c of the strategic location of getting to just about any where in the Pacific, well if Japan has a Navy any where in the Pacific they can very easily get to you as well. I would rather chose my encounters with a OP4 Navy then place myself centrally like that so they can chose their encounter with me.
-LT04
Obviously, you don’t go there if you are going to get obliterated. BUT…
is it even worth it for Japan to engage the US navy?I am of the philosophy (esp when I go US Pac), to NEVER attack (unless I have a huge advantage) the other navy, but it force Japan back to Sz 60 or 61 without a fight.
This can be accomplished with the purchase of AC’s and ftrs since they are much stronger on def then on off, and at least trns get to fire too.
So in the scenerio for the US consolidating its fleet at Car, does Japan really want to attack when it’s own trns can’t fire and are only fodder, while its AC’s go from 3’s to 1’s and it’s ftrs from 4’s to 3’s while the US’s defense gets a big boost? And how much will this set Japan back in its push toward Mosocw.
All that being said, I would much perfer to go to Sol then EI, since I can usually have Japan right where I want her at that point, and I’ll forgo Car and some of the other lesser islands until a little later
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When it comes to navy, I have found that numerical supriority is a myth. Unless you have as many battleships as he has units, you never have enough superiority with navy, or you always have too much superiority.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve crushed the American navy in Solomons because he advanced too far, too fast. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been crushed when I had 5 to 1 odds in my favor of winning.
That’s what makes navy fun. Odds are you’ll get no where near what you expect for a result at the end.
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Good point Jen.
That seems to happen for me too, in navy battles, they can really swing to the extremes very easily, which is why I like to play the defensive card as the US. At least let me roll for more 3’s and 4’s.I’ve played some serious Pac strat games and have had 9 Japan subs get only 1 hit. Needless to say I go creamed in that battle.
I’ve also had like 3 ACs and 6 ftrs score 7-8 hits plus hits form other units, in battles that should be about 50%, but I end up winning with like 5-6 units left over. -
I just got into a game where i did extremely badly on my attack. I got 1 out of 12 hits instead of the presumed 6 (each unit was a 3 or 4 hit counter) and then on my defense I was attacked by a vastly inferior force (I had 7 to 1 odds to own him) and lost all my units, he lost some damage to his battleship only. (I lost 2 battleships, 2 aircraft carriers, 4 fighters, 3 destroyers and 7 submarines, but in 5 rounds, I got 1 (count them ONE) hit.)
Let me tell you, I’m extremely screwed as Japan now. In fact, I don’t think Japan has a chance in hell of defeating KJF against an America who has taken adequate time to prepare. I don’t care if you own all of Asia west of Moscow.
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You missed a VERY good reason to take those islands (beyond a back-up LZ for FIGs if AC’s are lost mentioned above)…
Fighter Exchange.
Example:
USA has 2 loaded AC’s off Wake and controls Wake Island.
USA in the previous turn bought 4 FIGs and placed them in Western US.USA can now attack SZ60 with ALL 8 FIGs.
the 4 from the AC’s fly to SZ60, then back to land on Wake
the 4 from WUS fly to SZ60 to land on AC’s that moved into the SZ for battle.You can then REPEAT the Fighter Exchange the next turn with an attack on mainland Japan, sending the AC based FIGs over Japan, then to land on Wake, and the Wake FIGs to fly over Japan and land on the ACs.
You can catch players off guard with this if they have never been hit with it before.
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You can do the same thing with Okinawa and gain the ipc too. Fighters from WUS land on Carriers in SZ 58, and fighters from AC in SZ 58 land on Okinawa, and also puts you into position to hit Philippines, Borneo, or New Guinea.
If your main US force backs Japan around the home islands, a smaller force (or UK) can often walk away with the valuable southern islands too, because Japan may not want to split their forces to hit south or leave the home islands vulnerable.
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Doing it in Oki takes a round longer to achieve. Starting from WUS w/ your fleet, you can attack the main Japan fleet, and possibly even level an attack on Japan itself in just 3 total turns from WUS (1 to Wake and take it, 2 to kill the fleet, 3 to strike Japan).
To attempt it from Oki would take an additional turn to reach Oki.
One other factor for taking the no-IPC island: deprive your enemy of LZ’s that would allow extra AF to be used on your own fleet. If you are sitting at Wake, but Japan controls it, they can send Manch based FIGs to attack your fleet since they can land at Wake.
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@ncscswitch:
Example:
USA has 2 loaded AC’s off Wake and controls Wake Island.
USA in the previous turn bought 4 FIGs and placed them in Western US.Didn’t realize you were talking about starting here at San Diego. Simply trying to agree with you that fighters from WUS can reach deep into the Pacific to land on ACs that are there, perhaps stationed at Wake like you said and hit in and around the home Japanese islands.
If you go from WUS on turn 1 to take Wake, turn 2 to take Oki, then 3 to hit the fleet you get additional naval forces that were placed at WUS on turn 1 and fighters begin arriving too for the fleet attack and for xday. 1 extra turn while you are chewing up additional ipcs along with UK farther south and Japan not gaining ground on Moscow may be a way some want to go.
Non-IPC islands are like one’s views of armor v artillery, they may work better for one situation than another, but they are in the game, so you can way to use them, but they don’t have to be used for everything. Maybe in one situation they work better than another, that’s the beauty of it. Maybe it’s 6 one way, half a dozen the other. Like DarthMaximus said, given the right strat, the islands hold strategic purposes.
You could exchange fighters with ACs in SZ 60 too, and land fighters in Buryatia, then hit Japan too, skip the southern islands all together. (turn 1 to HI, turn to attack fleet in SZ 60, turn 3 to attack Japan)
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Ncscswicth,
Your FTR exchange idea is a good one I have always called it “the old switch-a-roo” and like you said it can prove to be very effective for a 4 space FTR have to traverse an entire ocean or continant for that matter,
-LT04
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I still think you are better off jsut skipping them. why take wake, when you could go a space more and capture something that brings in IPC’s and still can be used as a bomber platform?
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Zosima,
Well I can’t see taking Wake but if the USN has TRN’s moving into the Pacific (with or without combat units with them) I do agree that you should unload them every stop to avoid unseen expensive navel losses.
Also If the USN is leaving WUS and wants to unload troops (using the rule of thumb above) It can’t make it farther than Sol, Wake, Hawaii, Midway or Alaska. Lets face it the INF need to get out stretch the legs and take a leek.
-LT04
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Typically the US will build up a fleet in sz55 (with the WUS complex). Â When that fleet gets strong enough for the US player to decide to venture out, they typically want to move their fleet out but keep it within 1 seazone of sz55. Â Why? Â So that the fleet is only 1 turn away from reinforcements. Â So the fleet can move to Wake Island sea zone and still get reinforced the following turn because it is only two seazones (1 turn of movement) away from sz55.
Okinawa is 3 sea zones away from sz55, so it takes 2 turns for reinforcements to get there.
That is one reason why you might want Wake not Okinawa. Â Soloman Islands is an excellent strategic point, where if you move there in enough force you may force Japan to move their fleet from sz60 to sz61 to avoid being attacked. Â Whereas a move to Wake with the same US fleet might have been in range of additional Jap fighters from Japan that would have instigated an attack. Â Once Japan has conceded sz60 the US can waltz into EI, Car, Bor, or New and still be out of range of the Japan navy.
Those are 2 examples of good reasons why you might want the 0 IPC islands.
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I think its interesting that the voting is so neck and neck.
-LT04
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