@jesse144 Glad you liked it! I don’t have any updates and I haven’t played in a while, if I do I will update the google doc here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12dpoHb1QMlSHM_DOtglr4-ILKQ6wmxxLAHyGNCAXiA8/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks!
E
Posts made by eroxors
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
What were the game results? When did the Dutch receive their NOs (what was their final income)? Was there any discernible difference in the Pacific?
Thanks for trying it out.
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
Thanks for the interest. We were actually able to play a game with this rule so I have answers to all your questions.
1. The Dutch vs. Italy language is intended to provide a “storyline” element to the Dutch vs. Italian situation that presents itself on the board and to explain the equal granting of units and territories to both nations.
2. The problem here is that the Dutch have no way to build units in the Pacific, so I didn’t think it was appropriate to siphon IPCs from the Pacific. I think that I will change this in a future revision to provide facilities in the DEI.
3. You are correct, they can be taken over by any Axis power. In the game we played, both Italy and Germany contemplated invading Venezuela after a failed Dutch invasion.
4. A) Yes, we encountered this and treated it as “allied control.” B) This is wrong, it should read “The Japanese must control two of the following territories: Borneo, Java, Sumatra, Celebs and Dutch New Guinea”
Thanks for the tip about the Dutch units, I’ll probably order some. Also, stay tuned for version 2 of the Dutch rules, they were pretty much a non-issue in the game I played and Italy was a beast with 60 some IPCs by round 4. Part of this was weak rolling, but there are some balance changes that are needed.
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
@CWO:
Your concept is interesting, eroxors. I do think that it’s a bit of stretch to assume that Brazil, which achieved independence from its Portuguese colonial rulers in 1821-1823, would “enter the war under the control of the Dutch”, a modest colonial power which had ruled just a few small bits and pieces of Brazil for a mere couple of decades (1630-1654) three hundred years before the Second World War, and whose own national territory had been overrun and occupied by the Nazis in five days. Brazil dilly-dallied until August 1942 before declaring war on the Axis (as an independent country, not as a nation controlled by someone else), despite the fact that it was in the geographic sphere of influence of the United States – a large, powerful country that wasn’t under Nazi occupation, that was geographically closer to Brazil than Holland, and which did not carry the stigma of having ever been a colonial ruler of any part of Brazil.
One subject you didn’t mention in your posts, and which could be interesting for you to investigate, is ADBACOM (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABDACOM). The Battle of the Java Sea (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Java_Sea) should also interest you, since the ABDA fleet in that engagement was under the command of a Dutch Admiral, Karel Doorman.
Thanks for the input. I agree that the whole scenario is a historical stretch. I worded the phrase “under Dutch control” as an indication of the game controller, not the political reality, which would probably be some type of cooperative agreement with the large nation of Brazil and the small remnant of a smaller “guest” nation of the Netherlands. The Dutch Brazil wikipedia page mentions that the Dutch controlled nearly half of Brazil, I haven’t been able to verify this. However, there have been several waves of Dutch settlement of the area in addition to those that remained after the Portuguese took over including many in the state of Holanda, which was settled between 1858 and 1862. A second wave from Netherlands brought more than 3500 Dutch to Brazil from 1906 to 1913. Also, the post-war connection between the Dutch and Brazil was demonstrated with several dutch settlements including Holambra I and II, Nao-Me-Toque, Monte Alegre, Castrolandia, and a half dozen more. Of course, post-war settlements don’t really matter, but there is a Netherlands-Brazil connection that could be imaginatively used as a host for this type of arrangement.
I will be changing the wording from “under Dutch control” to something else.
As for ADBA, I was aware that the Dutch had a significant presence in the Pacific, perhaps more so than “ANZAC,” which gets playable nation status. Perhaps ADBA should replace ANZAC in the game, since it was formed two months earlier. Regardless, I did add a submarine in the Pacific to demonstrate the presence of the Dutch and their submarines:
“Some Dutch ships were also based in Australia and Ceylon, and continued to operate in the Indian and Pacific oceans. Due to the high number of submarines present in the Netherlands East Indies (the major part of the defensive plans of the Dutch government), the Dutch were called, in the Asian Campaign, the Fourth Ally. The total number of submarines operating in the Eastern Theater was seventeen.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_Netherlands_during_World_War_II
I also added infantry to the E. Indies to demonstrate the massive amount of native manpower that could have been brought to bear if the Dutch had been more popular with the local population. Now that I think about it, I may change this (perhaps add another submarine)… the Indonesians seem to have welcomed the Japanese as liberators. Just thinking out loud here.
Do you have any thoughts or knowledge of the E. Europe situation?
Thanks again for the help.
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
I don’t. Why does Italy aquire all of those territories. If the Dutch part of your rule is historically accurate then everything else should to. The rule I have made simply makes the Dutch as a fourth Allied power in the Pacific (Dutch East Indies).
You’re right, there is no real historical foundation for the Italian invasion of Yugoslavia, Greece and Bulgaria other than the fact that Italy probably wanted to take those territories (is anyone aware of the situation?). I decided to include them for balance purposes (one could simply award the 5 extra IPCs to Japan for their first move, but keep additional Italian units) because the number of infantry on those territories just so happened to equal the amount of Dutch infantry on the board. Also, I was concerned that Italy couldn’t acquire additional reoccurring income, while the Dutch probably won’t ever loose any S. American territories. The benefits of a S. American Dutch force are the involvement of a stagnant continent, the creation of an extra faction, the ability of ANZAC and UK Pacific to acquire additional Pacific territories and IPCs since their prospects are extremely limited, an addition to the African theater and to some extent the hilarity of it all. I don’t think the Italian rule takes too much from the historicity of the situation. I think that a little imagination can be good for a game (or rule.)
Thanks for your input, what would you change to the rule? How do you play the Pacific Dutch?
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
Yes, I thought about making Brazil and Angola “pro-ally” neutrals, but it would put the Dutch at least 1 round, perhaps 2 behind as they would have to buy and deploy a manufacturing complex, making them effectively useless. Also, Suriname has no IPC value (not good for a capital) and I decided beforehand that I wouldn’t add any IPC value to the board.
No offense taken, I appreciate the feedback.
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
Thanks for the input!
The Dutch actually ruled much of Brazil from 1630 to 1654, prior to the Portuguese invasion. It was called “Dutch Brazil” or “New Holland” during this time. Also the proximity to Dutch-owned Suriname (modern times) played a part and the Netherlands has traditionally had a presence in the region. Ultimately, however, the connection is loose but necessary to establish a faction with the ability to generate IPCs and become a regional force.
wikipedia: Dutch Brazil
Also, I didn’t use French pieces because of the very real possibility of french pieces meeting with Dutch pieces in Africa and possibly in the Atlantic.
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RE: The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
Sorry, I forgot to include that. Brazil gets a minor industrial complex, naval base and air base.
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The Dutch Diaspora, alternate AAG1940 playable factionposted in House Rules
Hey guys, I’m wanting feedback on this alternate rule I created. All the guys I play with want a Dutch faction so it’s going to happen (don’t just tell me it’s stupid) so I’ve created the rule and I need some constructive feedback, mostly on balance but also anything I’m missing in general. We will probably be playing the Alpha 2 rules. Thanks in advance for your help.
The Dutch Diaspora - Axis & Allies 1940 Global Alternate Rule
by Eric Malone, ericmalone@gmail.comIn spring of 1940, after the successful Nazi bombing of Rotterdam, the Dutch, who were completely unprepared for war, negotiated a shameful surrender to the Germans, who in an extreme act of betrayal delayed massive armament shipments purchased by Holland while at the same time plotting to invade the country. Prior to the surrender, a significant number of Dutch escaped Holland and established a government in Exile in London. A national outcry at the devastation of Rotterdam, the theft of the Dutch resources and other such horrors witnessed by the Dutch people led to a national re-mobilization of the Dutch armies throughout its old colonial dominions in Africa and South America including the territories of Brazil, Angola, Suriname and islands throughout the West Indies. As a response to the Dutch re-mobilization and in service to the war movement, Brazil and Angola enter the war under the control of the Dutch (Brazilian, Angolan and Dutch forces). The Dutch decide to cede their resources in the Pacific to allies in order to efficiently assist the war effort there and focus the Dutch resources on establishing a foothold on South America. Chile, Argentina and Venezuela however, perceiving a very real and dangerous threat from the Dutch and Brazil become Axis-leaning neutrals.
At the beginning of the game, the Dutch are faced with the immediate necessity of South American domination. Their resources from the East Indies will not sustain them, they must expand their territory in South America and start preparing the war machine in order to compete with Italy and defend their temporary homeland. Meeting national objectives are crucial to the success of the Dutch Diaspora.
Unit Placement, National Objectives & IPC Changes
Holland Sao Paulo is now an allied victory city and the capital of the Dutch Diaspora. It is treated as any other capital/victory city, when captured, all IPCs are forfeited to the captor and income is not generated for Holland until they are able to either retake their capital or are liberated.
Holland moves FIRST, before Germany.
The Dutch use Russian units. Both the Dutch and Italians will receive an identical amount and type of units, 75 IPCs worth.
The Dutch East Indies (Sumatra, Java, Celebs and Dutch New Guinea) are treated as pro-allies neutral territories and are capture-able by allies, though they do generate income for the Dutch until they are “captured.” Once captured, place a control marker and replace any Dutch pieces with pieces from the capturing nation (not including sea units). This is to signify the transition to regional command. If captured and liberated, the territory is not returned to the Dutch, it is treated as a liberated neutral territory and belongs to the liberator.
Suriname and French & British Guiana are treated as one territory for movement purposes.
Sea Zones 66 and 86 now show a convoy marker.
Angola: 2 infantry
Brazil: 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 minor industrial complex, 1 air base, 1 naval base
West indies: 1 infantry
Suriname: 2 infantry
Celebs: 1 infantry
Java: 2 infantry
Sumatra: 2 infantry
SZ41: 1 submarine
SZ85: 2 transportsNational Objectives:
Establish a foothold on the South American continent. Control Chile, Brazil and Venezuela in addition to all Dutch western territories (West Indies, Brazil, Suriname and Angola) and receive an additional 5 IPCs per turn.
Transfer power in the East to an ally. In order to efficiently fuel the war effort, eastern territories (Sumatra, Java, Celebs, Dutch New Guinea) must be administered by a regional ally. For each eastern territory under the control of an ally (not Dutch control) collect 2 IPCs (maximum of 8). The United States cannot take capture these until it is at war with Japan.
Resist the Japanese advance. While at war with Japan, receive an additional 5 IPCs per turn as long as a Dutch warship (or submarine) remains in the Pacific.
Italy The actions of the Dutch have insulted the Italian people and in response, the Italians have increased production, recruited soldiers and advanced through the territories of Yugoslavia, Greece and Bulgaria.
Yugoslavia: 5 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter
Greece: 4 infantry
Bulgaria: 4 infantry
SZ97: Add 1 submarine, 2 transportsNational Objectives:
Disperse the Dutch Diaspora. If any of these territories (Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina, Chile, West indies or Angola) is under Axis control, Receive 5 IPCs per turn.
United States
As a sign of solidarity the U.S. suggests the use of former Dutch colonies in the Caribbean to the Dutch war effort. The U.S. cedes control of the West Indies to the Dutch Diaspora and looses 1 IPC permanently.Japan
National Objectives:
Search for resources. Japan receives a one-time IPC boost of 10 IPCs at the start of the game as an investment to counter the Dutch presence in the East Indies and capture the immense resources of the East Indies.Instead of receiving 5 IPCs for controlling ALL former Dutch Territories in the East, only 2 need to be controlled to receive the objective.
Notes about balance:
The starting IPC count of the East Indies plus the West Indies, Brazil and Angola equals 15 IPCs, this is offset by the 10 IPC boost to Japan and the 5 IPCs Italy will receive for Greece, Yugoslavia and Bulgaria.
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