American split income?

lol they needed rubber and steel too. but yes i see your point. but isnt it against the rules for japan to attack russia?

@Subotai:

With the overall grand strategic concept of which A&A is designed, it doesn’t make any differences between different kind of resources. So 2 ipc is 2 ipc, plain and simple. Thats why it pays off for Japan to attack Russia.

There is no oil and steel in A&A, there is only money (ipc) to take and to protect.
So thats why 2 Russian TTs which is 2 ipc each, is as good as Borneo or East Indies in A&A (at least AA50). In the real war Japan needed oil. In A&A all you need is money.

Capice?

Exactly and in A&A there is lots of easy Russian territories that are up for grabs, All you need is a few tanks and you are in business.

if the russians TT were 0 up North, would Japan still go for them?

Yes, because the real reason Japan sends tanks to Moscow is to knock the Soviets out of the war ASAP.  Even the money and income from Moscow isn’t as important as clearing the Eurasian landmass of Allied forces; just consider how much shorter the front lines the Axis defends now become.  It’s about reducing the Allied position more than boosting that of Japan.
Of course if you make it a four of five player game (with individual winning conditions) then everything changes, as it’s Germany which is more likely to benefit in the long term from the fall of Russia.

Even then, racing the Germans to Moscow may be worth doing while your navy holds off any US Pacific build that may materialise.  More likely the yanks will have sent units to save Moscow, or perhaps take Berlin before Moscow falls.

After an initial strike to gobble up valuable islands, the land route into Russia will always be the optimum strategy unless the treaty is put in place (1942+), or Japan is forbidden from attacking on both fronts until one enemy has been defeated (1940).

@Omega:

if the russians TT were 0 up North, would Japan still go for them?

That is one way of designing strategic abstractions in A&A which is related to WW2. Increase the ipc value of TTs close to Moscow and Moscow itself, (in the global game), then the Japanese must take two or three TTs before being able to gain anything in attacking Russia, Siberian TTs should be worth less according to historic realism.

This is much better, imo, than silly non-aggression pacts which were notoriously broken both before and during WW2.

@Omega:

if the russians TT were 0 up North, would Japan still go for them?

It would certainly be less enticing.

@Omega:

if the russians TT were 0 up North, would Japan still go for them?

There should also be more of them. The expansive wasteland, y’know.

I solved the non agression treaty by making japan and russia really afraid of attacking eachother

If either party engaged in the non-agression treaty attacks a territory origianaly belonging to the other, all attacks on that power this turn are modified as follows. The attackers units all suffer a -1 penalty to their attack value (infantry have no attack value when not supported by artillery). Likewise, all defending units have their defense value increased by +1 (no unit may exeed a value of 5 by any means).

This rule is considerd void after one power has attacked the other AND succesfuly taken a territory from that power. Combat within the boarders of China and Mongolia have no effect on the treaty. These units are assumed to be Communst Chinese or their Mongolian equvialant.

Well you could just make a rule that the first country that attacks has to surrender all of their income for the rest of the game and that would make them really afraid of attacking each other as well, but it doesn’t make sense, just like your rule doesn’t make sense either.

What many posters seem to forget is that when an A&A game starts, Japan and Russia are at war….  :roll:

You need more than a non-aggression treaty between Japan and Russia to make a practical and good solution, if the goal is that Japan and Russia are not allowed to attack each other. You need a completely different design within the aspects of the relations between different powers.

Also, the premise of A&A is that once the game starts, we can alter the history. If you don’t agree with this premise, then I’d suggest you design a game that is completely different from what every A&A (global) game is now.

@Subotai:

What many posters seem to forget is that when an A&A game starts, Japan and Russia are at war….  :roll:

You need more than a non-aggression treaty between Japan and Russia to make a practical and good solution, if the goal is that Japan and Russia are not allowed to attack each other. You need a completely different design within the aspects of the relations between different powers.

Also, the premise of A&A is that once the game starts, we can alter the history. If you don’t agree with this premise, then I’d suggest you design a game that is completely different from what every A&A (global) game is now.

Subotai, I am with you 100% on that post.

@Subotai:

What many posters seem to forget is that when an A&A game starts, Japan and Russia are at war….   :roll:

You need more than a non-aggression treaty between Japan and Russia to make a practical and good solution, if the goal is that Japan and Russia are not allowed to attack each other. You need a completely different design within the aspects of the relations between different powers.

Also, the premise of A&A is that once the game starts, we can alter the history. If you don’t agree with this premise, then I’d suggest you design a game that is completely different from what every A&A (global) game is now.

I agree, but the big thing is Japan needs a target other than moscow that is almost as difficult to achieve as moscow is for germany.  With the way the pacific is laid out in the new game, the indies are worth alot of money and the UK/ANZAC/China/US can really put up a fight for 'em, unlike in old aa50.

yea…my rule doesnt make sense, you obviously are brain damaged
If both sides entered into a non agression treaty, and anticipate holding true to it, it can be infered that the forces that remain there are more “defense oriented” units, as in they have extremely limited forward operations capibility, little to no transportation, no supplys in any positon to move forward, etc. The forces there are ready to defend the border, and would not do well in an attack. Therefore they are penalized; whilst the defender, who has sacrificed any offensive potential for a boost in defense, receives one.

that way you CAN break the pact, however, the other power is still WARY of an attack, more so than normal.

I mean…you can be constructive on these forums, or not, i dont care what you do either way, i just want people to hear my ideas

@oztea:

yea…my rule doesnt make sense, you obviously are brain damaged
If both sides entered into a non agression treaty, and anticipate holding true to it, it can be infered that the forces that remain there are more “defense oriented” units, as in they have extremely limited forward operations capibility, little to no transportation, no supplys in any positon to move forward, etc. The forces there are ready to defend the border, and would not do well in an attack. Therefore they are penalized; whilst the defender, who has sacrificed any offensive potential for a boost in defense, receives one.

that way you CAN break the pact, however, the other power is still WARY of an attack, more so than normal.

I mean…you can be constructive on these forums, or not, i dont care what you do either way, i just want people to hear my ideas

Okay oztea, now I see your point of view, and yes I am brain damaged. I take back the part about it not making sense. I do like hearing your ideas, but I just made a response on how I understood it. Sometimes I am wrong and this is one of those times. Please keep posting your ideas.

Well, going back to the original topic.  I think that US income will not be split.  I think that the western US will stay at 10 ipc.  And the Eastern US will be be the big money maker.

Or, the US just gains the 40 IPC for being at war, period.

Granted that would suck, I want a US that makes over 100 lol.

Hopefully the placing of Moscow firmly in Europe will offset the Moscow magnet, simply because Germany will now be so much closer to that city than Japan, not true of the old maps with the Soviet capital somewhere in the Ural mountains.

If this is so, can Germany afford to sit and wait for Japan to arrive east of Moscow before attacking the place?

It should be uneconomical for Japan to devote so much energy to eating up central Asia.

There should, however, be a Soviet factory in the Urals (or at least the option to move one there) so that

1. USSR can fight on with a reasonable factory (3-4 IPC) if Moscow falls,

2. Japan has a reasonably attainable and valuable target if it decides to attack Russia.

I fully appreciate the need for the game to potentially diverge from a historical play out; my concern is that an optimum strategy for the Axis similar to that so familiar from previous versions will mean that the historical game NEVER happens, and the Pacific continues to be ignored.

@Flashman:

I fully appreciate the need for the game to potentially diverge from a historical play out; my concern is that an optimum strategy for the Axis similar to that so familiar from previous versions will mean that the historical game NEVER happens, and the Pacific continues to be ignored.

A historical game means axis always lose.
For the real WW2, Germany should never attacked Russia before finishing off UK.
Japan will always lose against US in the Pacific, b/c US had perhaps 4-5 times higher GDP than Japan.

But the Pacific islands should be worth much more, then we could have a real pacific conflict in the global game.

A&A can never be historically realistic, unless a $100 bid to balance the game is considered “realistic”?

The Axis lost the war in 1941. If Germany had attacked Russia 2 weeks earlier, they would not have been stroped by bad wether and Russian reinforments in Kursk. They would have rooled Moscow and Russia would have decended into a state of Panic, they would have lost their command centre, and their few generals.

The axis lost the world war by 2 weeks, 1 year before pearl harbour.

If Moscow had fallen, UK would have surrenderd because of the econmoic attack blowtorch of Germany (bombing, rockets, and stopping american aid) along with aferica falling.

Even the USA couudnet beat the rest of the world.

yep exactly.