Russia- AA 50 tech trees and a roll of 3 bad joke!

@Navalland said in Artillery to defend at 3?:

Just trying to figure out the most balanced unit set up and wondering if +1 defense to artillery would be good idea. Probably better to leave it as it is right now.

Ya I would for now.

Research is super fun, but can seriously unbalance the game if a player gets lucky with their first couple rolls. Therefore, we play that the player chooses which tech to research, however better techs have a lower chance of being successfully researched.

The mechanism of researching is the same, you buy research tokens (dice rolls), roll for success, if none hit the tokens are banked for next turn and can roll again at no cost, if successful the tech is gained and the tokens are removed and must be rebought to do more research . The cost of each token (die roll) is increased to 8 IPC (normally is 5). But, tier 1 techs will be successfully researched with a roll of 3 or lower, tier 2 with roll of 2 or lower, and tier 3 with roll of 1:

(3/6 chance) 1. adv artillery, inc factory prod . || mech infantry, war bonds
(2/6 chance) 2. long-range aircraft, radar . . . . || paratroopers, rockets
(1/6 chance) 3. heavy bombers, super subs . . || jet fighters, improved shipyards

To balance out how multiple techs are gained, we separated complimentary tech into opposing groups to prevent them from easily being researched too quickly back-back and becoming OP. To research a tier 2 or 3 tech at least one tech from the tier below must be already obtained from WITHIN the branch. Note, the techs are separated into left and right branches.

So to get heavy bombers (left, tier 3), you could research adv artillery or factory prod (left, tier 1) then radar or long-range air (left, tier 2). Then, to get jet fighters (right, tier 3), you’d have to also research 2 corresponding lower tier techs in the right branch, because adv artillery/radar/etc. don’t count towards the necessary lower tier techs for the right branch.

Thoughts?

I think the USA non-combat turn zero pretty much balances the game 50/50! If you want, you can give the Axis a bid of 3 to 6 IPCs, but I doubt it’s necessary.

I don’t think Russia gets erased by Germany. Russia actually starts with a healthy number of troops even out of the box, and because Russia goes before Germany, Russia has a chance to shape the European map in its favor. With an USA turn zero, the Allied Atlantic fleets will survive, which means much earlier Allied pressure on Norway/France/Morocco, which really limits Germany’s ability to secure a permanent economic advantage against Russia. In other words, in my opinion, the problem with the OOB 1942.2 setup isn’t that Russia is too weak – it’s that the US & UK are too weak. Giving the USA a zero turn helps protect both US & UK assets, which fixes this problem.

Related to #2, if you haven’t already read Black_Elk’s sticky thread on Russian Openings, you really need to. It will totally change the way you see the 1942.2 board.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35487.0

@mattsk:

About your HR, Russia is merely strong enough to protect Moscow, not talking about some far east adventures.

I guess one way to handle this would be for the HR to say that Russia can declare war on Japan after two conditions have been met:

Germany has been defeated Russia has had time to transfer many of its forces from Europe to the Far East

This is basically what happened in WWII.  Stalin had an agreement with the Americans and British that he would declare war on Japan three months after Germany’s defeat, to allow him time to shift his forces eastward.  Which he did.

I think the allies need a lot of help in Global.  Trouble is, if the bid gets too big they can put it all in one theatre and unbalance the situation on one side of the map.  So what I propose is a rule for bids that says you must place 50% of your bid on the Europe map and 50% on the Pacific map.  If the bid is an odd number, you can place 50%+1 on one side.  So for example if the bid is $17 you would have to place 8 or 9 in each side.  This rule would allow bids to get a lot larger and give the allies a fighting chance, while keeping it reasonable on each side of the world.

just because USA has more capacity, doesn’t mean it can produce units cheaper.
Quote
Reduction in cost per unit resulting from increased production, realized through operational efficiencies.

THAT is what ‘economies of scale’ mean.  Operational efficiencies can be view in terms of {technological} improvements in manufacturing procedures.  Procedures do not necessarily require robots.  Better Rivets (materials) or better training (labor) or better materials delivery systems (just in time) are all realized without robots.

These efficiencies come at a higher economic cost. They are not born out of low income economies. Just look at how many small economies can produce battleships at a lower cost than a larger economy. They don’t exist if you compare quality. If you can show me an example thats fine. The largest economies can do this mush more effectively than a smaller economy, so “economies of scale” also has the meaning that the greater investment of money will necessarily lead to a greater efficiency of effort.

“refers to the cost advantages that a business obtains due to expansion. There are factors that cause a producer’s average cost per unit to fall as the scale of output is increased.”

I look at this as the more income you got for investment, the greater the potential for economies of scale. So to me these are built in factories assumed by the larger, burgeoning economies in the game.

“…since some economies of scale may require a larger market than is possible within a particular country — for example, it would not be efficient for Liechtenstein to have its own car maker, if they would only sell to their local market.”

Another indication. Italy in the game would be less capable of this compared to USA or Germany.

Perhaps rather than a tech for every 20 IPC lead the combined axis or allies have over the other side receives a -1 cost benefit for naval. that would model “economies of scale” a bit better IMO rather than paying some dude in a white lab coat 5 IPC to “invent” a cash poor nations way of getting cheaper battleships, when another nation much larger is somehow paying a 20% markup for the same battleship but has 3 times to economy to do it.

We have to agree to disagree.

Technology Rules:
Technology is done the same as AA50, however there are now four technology trees, land, air, naval and production; and you now pick the technology once you have a breakthrough. Each of these trees is split into three tiers. The first two technologies of each tree belong to tier one. The second two belong to tier two. The third set of two belong to tier three. On a successful role, you can choose the technology you want from any technology tier you have available to you. To start, only tier one is available; you can choose between the first 8 technologies (radar, rockets, heavy artillery, marines, long lance torpedoes, super submarines, war bonds, improved factory production). Once you have a tier one technology, you unlock tier two from that technology tree only. In order to unlock a tier three, you must have at least one tier two technology from another tree. So, once you have at least two tier one techs (radar and marines for example) and two tier two techs (jet fighters and reinforced concrete for example) both land AND air tier threes has been unlocked. From there you would just need one tier one and one tier two from the naval tree (for example) to unlock the naval tier three. You may, of course, acquire all techs on the board so long as you roll successfully and the respected tiers are unlocked.

Air Technology

1. Radar
All your AA guns now hit on a 2 or (including AA Cruisers). Fighters in a territory with an operational airbase may scramble to intercept strategic bombardment attacks against facilities in any adjacent territory, following the standard interceptor rules. Your shore batteries now hit on a 2 or less. Your AA guns may now defend against rockets in the territory that is targeted by the rockets and where the rockets ‘fly over’ your AA guns (including AA cruisers).

1. Long-Range Aircraft
All your aircraft have their range increased by 1.

2. Rocket Projectiles
Your tactical bombers may choose its targets twice. Each tactical bomber can choose its target in the first and second round of combat.
    Ammo chips: http://www.mediafire.com/?9k512hkknsh66ss

2. Rockets
Your AA guns are now rocket launchers. In addition to its normal combat function, during the strategic bombing raid step of your Conduct Combat phase each turn, each of your AA guns can make a single rocket attack against an enemy facility within 3 spaces of it. This attack does 1D6 damage to that facility. All AA guns that can fire, may fire. Only one shot per AA gun. And each facility may only be the target of one rocket attack per turn.

3. Jet Fighters
The attack value of your fighters is now 4 instead of 3. The attack value of your escorts is raised from 1 to 2. The defense value of you interceptors is raised from 2 to 3.

3. Heavy Bombers
Your strategic bombers now roll 2 dice when you attack or make a strategic bombing raid, choose the better roll. Each bomber rolls separately. Heavy bombers still only roll one dice when defending.

Land Technology
1. Heavy Artillery
Each of your artillery units can support two infantry instead of 1 per attack. Two infantry, when coupled with one artillery, have an attack value of 2.

1. Marines
Your infantry attack at a 2 (3 when paired with artillery) during the first round of amphibious assaults only.

2. Improved Mechanized Infantry
Mechanized infantry attack at 2 or less when paired with a tank.

2. Reinforced Concrete
Your bunkers and block houses each gain 1 hit point. Your blockhouses’ guns cease to fire on the fourth damage marker rather than the third.

3. Conscription
You may place one infantry, for free, in any one territory that you have owned since the beginning of your turn.

3. Heavy Tanks
Each of your tank units can support two mechanical infantry instead of 1 per attack. Two mechanical infantry when coupled with one tank have an attack value of 2. In addition, every third tank attacks/defends at a 4.

Naval Technology
1. Long Lance Torpedoes
During the first cycle of combat only, your destroyers attack and defend on a 3. In succeeding cycles of combat, your destroyers fire as normal.

1. Super Submarines
Your submarines attack at a 3 now instead of a two, but they still only defend at a 1.

2. Combined Bombardment
Your destroyers now can conduct bombardment during an amphibious assault. (Their attack is 2.)

2. Heavy Carriers
Your carriers now have a 3 plane capacity.

3. AA Cruisers
Your defending cruiser(s) gets one AA roll against each enemy attacking plane, hitting at 1 (2 with radar tech) prior to the first round of combat. Each plane that is hit is removed before shooting back. Only one AA roll per combat, regardless of how many cruisers present. Same rules as AA guns.

3. Dreadnoughts
Your battleships have a first-strike capability (both attack and defense qualify). This capability is for the first round only. Any casualties are destroyed and removed from play with no chance to counter-attack (it does not disrupt the special ability of a submarine, but rather fires at the same time). In addition, your battleships now roll two dice during the coastal bombardment step of an amphibious assault, you may choose the best roll. Each battleship rolls separately. Casualties may still return fire.

Production Technology
1. War Bonds
Collect 1D6 extra IPCs during collect income phase.

1. Improved Factory Production
Your factories may produce one and two extra units respectively. Additionally, the cost to repair your factories is halved rounded up.

2. Mobile Industry
Your minor industrial complexes each may move one territory during your noncombat move phase. They cannot move during the combat move phase. If they are captured by an opponent, that opponent cannot move them without this tech. You cannot produce units from a factory on the turn it has moved. Subterranean industry cannot be moved.

2. Household Industrialization
Penalties to factory output by damage reduced by half, rounded up. i.e. A major industry, with 7 damage done to it, will still be able to produce 6 units.

3. Subterranean Industry
You may purchase/upgrade subterranean industry. Damage taken from strategic bombing raids is halved, rounded up. Subterranean industries cannot be moved. On the turn it is upgraded, an industry can only produce units equal to the amount it would have been able to produce prior to its upgrade. i.e. if a minor complex is upgraded to a major complex, that complex may only produce 3 units during your mobilization phase.
Cost is as follows:
Minor sub: 15 Upgrade minor to sub minor: 6 Upgrade minor sub to major sub: 25
Major sub: 38 Upgrade major to sub major: 15 Upgrade minor to sub major: 30

3. Improved Shipyards
Your sea units are now cheaper to build. Use these revised costs:
Battleship: 17 Cruiser: 10 Transport: 6
Aircraft Carrier: 11 Destroyer: 7 Submarine: 5

The National Objectives
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=21079.0

Edit: changed the Air tech tree for better historical accuracy and playability
Edit: replaced heavy payload with Rocket Projectiles. Moved heavy payload into the
      rules section.
Edit: added link to ammo markers for projectile rockets.
      http://www.mediafire.com/?9k512hkknsh66ss
Edit: heavy bombers and dreadnoughts.

Transports move very slowly. They are prey to subs and planes. They don’t escape unless the enemy runs out of bullets.

I think you don’t like them as fodder in combat, but its insane to bring them in combat only to lose them deliberately and keep your warships perfectly undamaged.

This is a big change that i have always welcomed and wanted for years before.