After further consideration I no longer feel the fighter escort/interceptor rule needs any fine tuning. In my previous posts I expressed the view that the rule nerfed strategic bombing too much but I’ve since changed my mind. After all, bombing raids over inland German targets without escorts was near suicidal, especially during the daylight. It wasn’t until the Allies had deployed long range escort fighters and had outnumbered the defending Luftwaffe aircraft, that the Allies were able to conduct bombing missions without terrible loses. The same is true with the fighter escort/interceptor rule as it stands now and it should stay that way.
First game.. Opinions.. and lots of questions!
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Hi everyone…!
Well it was my birthday on friday and my amazing fiancee bought me a copy of AA for my birthday (is it called AA50 the anniversary edition?). I took it over to my dads and we had our first game. I’d been reading the rules before hand so we were learning as we went. We started at about 8pm and finished at 11 and had onmly had 2 turns :P But we really enjoyed the learning process and agreed that next time we played we would be faster as we know what we are doing.
I just wanted to pick your brains over a few points…
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Can you use every single unit you own on your turn to attack with?
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My dad was saying… How come a tank can attack a fighter? Which is a good question. My reply was that the “tank” model represented a motorized division of sorts and as such could attack the fighter. Is this a correct assumption?
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Do the Chinese IPC’s contribute towards US IPC’s? As they lose chinese territories, does their national production go down?
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If you want to launch an amphibious assault… Do you need to send your transports at the same time as you would your battle ships to clear the sea zone? Or can you attack with your ships first… see if you win… then if so … send in the transports after it?
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The U.S and the U.K seem to be monsters in terms of National production… Compared to the Japanese initial laughable IPC level of production. (17 is it?) to the UK and US (40 something?). Does this swing the game in favour of the allies?
(edit) 6) Submarines! Ok the rules here are very confusing I think. Lets give you an example…
I am attacked by a submarine and my fleet consists of 1 cruiser. The sub gets it’s surprise strike… missed… then Does it get its attack roll straight away? Then the cruiser gets its defense roll and rolls a hit. Can the submarine then choose to submerge instead of taking the hit? Thus ending the combat?
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Transports: It is my understanding that each transport can hold 2 ground units. So if I wanted to launch an assault on the phillapines from japan, could I a) load 2 units into one transport, b) move them to the phillapines (two spaces away), c) attack in ONE turn? (assuming the sea zone is empty). Also, does bridging take 1 turn or 2 turns? (ie: can i just move 2 land units over a sea zone in one move if there is a transport in the sea zone bridging the gap)
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(sorry im editing this post as I think of more points) Carriers: Can I move a carrier its two space movement allocation into a hostile sea zone in the combat move phase, then use the fighters to attack a different coastal territory.
Thanks for your help :)
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Can you use every single unit you own on your turn to attack with?
Yes -
My dad was saying… How come a tank can attack a fighter? Which is a good question. My reply was that the “tank” model represented a motorized division of sorts and as such could attack the fighter. Is this a correct assumption?
Yes -
Do the Chinese IPC’s contribute towards US IPC’s? As they lose chinese territories, does their national production go down?
Read the manual, very good described there, just note the Fighter starting there is Chinese and can never go outside Chinese territory, so it cant sink a transport off the coast etc. -
If you want to launch an amphibious assault… Do you need to send your transports at the same time as you would your battle ships to clear the sea zone? Or can you attack with your ships first… see if you win… then if so … send in the transports after it?
They enter at the same time, if the BS win you land, if it doesnt and the deffender hit “extra” hits when sinking the BB, those hits are applied to transports joining, after all hits have been taken away the transports can retreat to where any of the ships entering the battle came from. -
The U.S and the U.K seem to be monsters in terms of National production… Compared to the Japanese initial laughable IPC level of production. (17 is it?) to the UK and US (40 something?). Does this swing the game in favour of the allies?
-41 version is either balanced or slightly in favor of the Axis, look on the map and you will see Japan will have ~40 ipc after turn 1 and close to 50 after turn 2.
(edit) 6) Submarines! Ok the rules here are very confusing I think. Lets give you an example…
I am attacked by a submarine and my fleet consists of 1 cruiser. The sub gets it’s surprise strike… missed… then Does it get its attack roll straight away? Then the cruiser gets its defense roll and rolls a hit. Can the submarine then choose to submerge instead of taking the hit? Thus ending the combat?
IF the sub have a surprise attack(no enemy destroyers present) that is done, and thats all attacks the subs gets that round of combat. You have to choose if the Sub should submerge before a round of combat goes(before any dices are thrown), you can submerge it if you please before any round of combat no enemy destroyers are present(after both the attacker and defender dice have been thrown and casualties have been applied and a new round of combat starts)-
Transports: It is my understanding that each transport can hold 2 ground units. So if I wanted to launch an assault on the phillapines from japan, could I a) load 2 units into one transport, b) move them to the phillapines (two spaces away), c) attack in ONE turn? (assuming the sea zone is empty). Also, does bridging take 1 turn or 2 turns? (ie: can i just move 2 land units over a sea zone in one move if there is a transport in the sea zone bridging the gap)
Yes you can load 2 units (1 inf + 1 inf/art/armor) and move 2 sea zones and land in same round. Briding of units takes one turn as long as both the transport and units belong to the same nation. 2 turns if its an allied transport or units. -
(sorry im editing this post as I think of more points) Carriers: Can I move a carrier its two space movement allocation into a hostile sea zone in the combat move phase, then use the fighters to attack a different coastal territory.
Yes and no, both the carrier and the fighters count theyre movement from where it starts the round. If you have a carrier with 2 planes in sea zone 6, the carrier can move to sea zone 12 and the fighters can attack a fleet in sea zone 13 and land on the carrier in sea zone 12. The carrier will then have moved 2 and the fighers 4 wich are theyre limit. You can not move the carrier 2 zones then use the fighters from that position for another 4 movements.
Hope this helps a bit :)
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@Pin:
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Can you use every single unit you own on your turn to attack with?
Yes -
My dad was saying… How come a tank can attack a fighter? Which is a good question. My reply was that the “tank” model represented a motorized division of sorts and as such could attack the fighter. Is this a correct assumption?
Yes -
Do the Chinese IPC’s contribute towards US IPC’s? As they lose chinese territories, does their national production go down?
Read the manual, very good described there, just note the Fighter starting there is Chinese and can never go outside Chinese territory, so it cant sink a transport off the coast etc. -
If you want to launch an amphibious assault… Do you need to send your transports at the same time as you would your battle ships to clear the sea zone? Or can you attack with your ships first… see if you win… then if so … send in the transports after it?
They enter at the same time, if the BS win you land, if it doesnt and the deffender hit “extra” hits when sinking the BB, those hits are applied to transports joining, after all hits have been taken away the transports can retreat to where any of the ships entering the battle came from. -
The U.S and the U.K seem to be monsters in terms of National production… Compared to the Japanese initial laughable IPC level of production. (17 is it?) to the UK and US (40 something?). Does this swing the game in favour of the allies?
-41 version is either balanced or slightly in favor of the Axis, look on the map and you will see Japan will have ~40 ipc after turn 1 and close to 50 after turn 2.
(edit) 6) Submarines! Ok the rules here are very confusing I think. Lets give you an example…
I am attacked by a submarine and my fleet consists of 1 cruiser. The sub gets it’s surprise strike… missed… then Does it get its attack roll straight away? Then the cruiser gets its defense roll and rolls a hit. Can the submarine then choose to submerge instead of taking the hit? Thus ending the combat?
IF the sub have a surprise attack(no enemy destroyers present) that is done, and thats all attacks the subs gets that round of combat. You have to choose if the Sub should submerge before a round of combat goes(before any dices are thrown), you can submerge it if you please before any round of combat no enemy destroyers are present(after both the attacker and defender dice have been thrown and casualties have been applied and a new round of combat starts)-
Transports: It is my understanding that each transport can hold 2 ground units. So if I wanted to launch an assault on the phillapines from japan, could I a) load 2 units into one transport, b) move them to the phillapines (two spaces away), c) attack in ONE turn? (assuming the sea zone is empty). Also, does bridging take 1 turn or 2 turns? (ie: can i just move 2 land units over a sea zone in one move if there is a transport in the sea zone bridging the gap)
Yes you can load 2 units (1 inf + 1 inf/art/armor) and move 2 sea zones and land in same round. Briding of units takes one turn as long as both the transport and units belong to the same nation. 2 turns if its an allied transport or units. -
(sorry im editing this post as I think of more points) Carriers: Can I move a carrier its two space movement allocation into a hostile sea zone in the combat move phase, then use the fighters to attack a different coastal territory.
Yes and no, both the carrier and the fighters count theyre movement from where it starts the round. If you have a carrier with 2 planes in sea zone 6, the carrier can move to sea zone 12 and the fighters can attack a fleet in sea zone 13 and land on the carrier in sea zone 12. The carrier will then have moved 2 and the fighers 4 wich are theyre limit. You can not move the carrier 2 zones then use the fighters from that position for another 4 movements.
Hope this helps a bit :)
It does help thank you very much for your replies. But im still unsure as to how japan can go from 17 IPC’s at the start of the game to 40 IPC’s in one turn? Does it involve conquering china in turn 1? Does the 17IPC’s japan recieves at the start of the game represent the IPC values of all the territories it controls at the setup of the game?
I’m also still unsure about transports and amphibious langings as in the rules it states that loading a transport takes up the entire move of the transport. Does this loading have to occur in the non combat phase? And in the combat phase you can load and attack at the same time?
Also, I have another question… If I load a tank on to a transport and unload it in a turn, can that tank still move an extra space and assault somewhere in the combat phase as it has 2 move space allowances?
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But im still unsure as to how japan can go from 17 IPC’s at the start of the game to 40 IPC’s in one turn? Does it involve conquering china in turn 1?
There are a lot of high-IPC territories that are in reach of Japan and lightly defended at the beginning of the game.
Does the 17IPC’s japan recieves at the start of the game represent the IPC values of all the territories it controls at the setup of the game?
Yes.
I’m also still unsure about transports and amphibious langings as in the rules it states that loading a transport takes up the entire move of the transport. Does this loading have to occur in the non combat phase? And in the combat phase you can load and attack at the same time?
No, loading onto and/or unloading from a transport takes the entire moves of the land units. The transport can load and then move, in either the combat or noncombat movement phase, depending on whether or not the land units are attacking in the current turn. You can load, move and amphibious assault in the same turn, conditions permitting. Once a transport unloads, its move is over.
There are quite a lot of rules that weren’t exactly clear in the rulebook. Many error corrections and clarifications can be found in the FAQ.
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Thanks a lot both of you for taking the time to respond to my thread.
I’ll have to have a look at the board and see ways to take these territories.
So, on J1 I should only be using the armies on the asian continent to attack chinese provinces? Should I attack uk provinces in asia as well or leave them for later? Can forces be bridged from Japan to attack chinese provinces and/or the phillapines in J1?
Also, why is it that forces of the same alliance cannot attack together at the same time? Yet they can defend.
I know this is going over to strategy now but i’ts teaching me so much listening to you guys ^^
Thanks.
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So, on J1 I should only be using the armies on the asian continent to attack chinese provinces? Should I attack uk provinces in asia as well or leave them for later? Can forces be bridged from Japan to attack chinese provinces and/or the phillapines in J1?
Basically, you want to take as many IPCs as you can, as quickly as you can. Taking them away from the US and UK helps more than taking them from China. You will have to deal with China eventually, though, so don’t let it get out of hand.
Also, why is it that forces of the same alliance cannot attack together at the same time? Yet they can defend.
Units can only fight when it’s their turn or they’re being attacked. They can’t attack on someone else’s turn.
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Good tips woul be to go to http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?board=50.0 and read up on Japanese first turn moves, see what ppl do. Basic strat is to kill all fleet in the Pacific and indian ocean except the US Carrier. Take out Philipines, Borneo and malaysia. Set up so you can either kill Australia or India Japan turn2, along with this you take out Kwangtung, 2-3 chinese territories.
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ok thanks for the help guys, played another round last night but I noticed a few things…
On turn 1, my carriers planes at sea odd the coast of midway took out the battleship at pearl. But this left the carriers wide open to a counter attack from the western united states… They attacked me with 1 fighters and 2 bombers and rolled 3 hits, to my none :( then they picked off the last plane and I took out a fighter… then the carriers were sunk.
So, my question is regarding carrier movement. Is it worth me moving my carriers out of range in the first turn of a counter attack before launching the attack on pearl? Is it worth taking the airfoce out on the western united states? What mean to say is… Can I launch fighters… , fight combat… move the carriers in non combat to a more defensive location, then land the planes on them in that location.
Me killing 1 battleship and losing 4 planes and 2 carriers is not a good trade off imo.
My next question regards Germany.
In turn one germany used 1 tank, a few inf and a fighter to take east poland… then used a tank to move 1 space through east poland into karellia to link up with troops from norway and a fighter from germany (I think it was from germany, he landed in norway.) We counted the moves so I think it was legal but maybe im getting confused on the territories. my questio though is this… Is it legal to move a tank through a territory you have just captured in order to assault another territory?
Any thoughts?
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Can I launch fighters… , fight combat… move the carriers in non combat to a more defensive location, then land the planes on them in that location.
Yes. Bear in mind that you must launch fighters before the carriers move and land them after the carriers move, and the fighters can only move four spaces total (unless you have Long Range Aircraft). Also, you must move the carriers in such a way that you can pick up all surviving fighters, if possible.
When making the fighters’ combat move, you must do it in such a way that all of them have a possible landing space after the battles are over. You can’t plan on losing any fighters, as you must assume that they will all survive. You must also declare any noncombat carrier movements necessary to recover the fighters. If the fighters survive, you must carry out those carrier movements to retrieve them. If they don’t, you’re free to move the carriers elsewhere.
Is it legal to move a tank through a territory you have just captured in order to assault another territory?
No. All combat movement must be completed before any combats are resolved. The only exception is unloading transports for an amphibious assault if there is a sea battle preceeding the assualt.
However, you can move a tank through a territory you just captured in noncombat movement to a friendly territory, even one you just captured, on the other side.
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Thanks for answering my questions ^^ I thought that Germany had taken waaaay too much soviet land on the first turn :P I guess we will have to reroll 1941 and start again. Some big errors in the rules were made…
- The 2 german subs were untocuched in the battle with the UK BS because of a misunderstanding of the rules.
- Tanks were moved after a combat had been resolved to reinforce a new combat in a more distant territory.
- The japanese player was unable to move the carriers out of range of the US (because he thought if he moved his planes then he couldnt move the carriers) and lost them.
Thanks you are really helping me to reinforce my understanding of the game.
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Japan on the first turn should normally take East Indies(4), Borneo(4), Philipines(2), Kwantung(1), and around 3 more land territories, for a net gain of 14 IPCs. If they are playing with NOs on (which while optional, is almost always used), then they receive an additional 10 IPCs, for a total gain of 24 IPCs, rising their total to 41 income.
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Hi guys thanks for your input playing a new game on Friday so i’ll let you know how it goes.
Just out of interest is there a chart for recording unit positions if you have to pack the game away and resume it at a later date?
Thanks
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Try this out.
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My first game results
Winner: Axis By concession
Game length: 7 turns (7pm-3am)Observations: At the start of the game I thought I had won because Germany left my UK fleet unmolested. I used it to blockade france and start shipping troops in every turn, while sending SBR’s to Berlin. To which Italy replied with retaking the zone. But the italians couldnt hold africa and UK kicked them out. He pushed his med fleet up to block the med.
This is where I think I made a mistake.
I split my UK fleet to go and wipe the Italians out. While this mision was successfulthe other half of my fleet was bombed into oblivion and I was never able to get troops from the UK over to france again after that. Russian held ground well but was then effectivley cut off from the UK and couldnt stop the Germans taking Moscow. Another mistake I made was to attack a large German force 1 zone from Moscow rather than stay and turtle and wait for US help. Then in the next turn he took moscow with a huge stack of planes and 1 tank.
Japan just grew and grew and grew and grew and I matched their builds with a navy of my own in WUS. Because it was getting so late I just attacked and we killed each other. But by that time Moscow had fell and it was little use carrying on.
I think it is very hard to play the allies if you dont use them all to help each other out.
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Tarkonis:
England may start out with the largest paycheck, but in a matter of one to two turns they get the smallest or at least second smallest with Italy having the smallest.
Just a brief look at strategies for you, by nation.
Germany: Get Baltic States, East Poland and Ukraine round 1, sink the ships in SZ 12.
Russia: Get tanks and artillery, try to push the Germans out of at least Ukraine, East Poland or Baltic States (to cost them their national objective.) Reinforce Chinghai with the four infantry you have in Novosibirsk and Kazakh.
Japan: Take Suiyuan, Yunnan, Hupeh, Kwangtung, Borneo, Sumatra/E. Indies, Philippines, sink the ships in SZ 56, SZ 53, SZ 35 and SZ 50 on Round 1; strengthen and push deeper into China. (That round 1 should give you 31 IPC +10 National Objective IPCs for a total of 41 IPC to spend on Japan 2.)
England: Rebuild fleet, prepare to stage massive invasions into Africa to cut the Italians off.
Italy: Focus is primarily on Africa, you might want to save up and get a Carrier and a second fighter to defend your fleet against the Americans and British.
China: Stall, one infantry in a territory can really slow down the Japanese.
America: Either go 100% against Germany or go 100% against Japan. You cannot really split your focus and expect to win in either arena. I happen to think Japan is easier to crack than Germany, but I am in the distinct minority. -
@Cmdr:
I happen to think Japan is easier to crack than Germany, but I am in the distinct minority.
I agree. I’ve often seen the Japanese player not take a devoted USA seriously enough. In this case Japan looks good the first few turns but then it can get real ugly real fast.
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@Cmdr:
Just a brief look at strategies for you, by nation.
America: Either go 100% against Germany or go 100% against Japan. You cannot really split your focus and expect to win in either arena. I happen to think Japan is easier to crack than Germany, but I am in the distinct minority.
I think this is the greatest point of contention with respect to strategic discussions.
I imagine if the Axis focus primarily on Russia, this might be true as the Axis backdoor would be weak and open to concentrated efforts from USA.
However, a more balanced Axis game plan might be best countered with a balanced Allied game plan.
If this is indeed true that USA go to only KGF / KJF, it is a sad statement on the balance of the game.
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Thanks very much for all the replies.
I hope you will forgive me but I briefly skimmed over the strats Jennifer… as after the last game we had a ‘gentlemens’ agreement that we should not look up strategies or ways to win on the internet, and instead figure it out for ourselves.
So, when we have our rematch i’ll let you know how I fared. I think i’m going to throw a pump fake to the japs and go KGF.
Cheers
Tark
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So, when we have our rematch i’ll let you know how I fared. I think i’m going to throw a pump fake to the japs and go KGF.
So what is the US pump fake?
I would like to hear your idea, not tell you what I think you should do… :wink:
:-D
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So what is the US pump fake?
I’m surprised a seasoned player like you hasn’t seen this one a_r.
The US Player puts on these high heels see…
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