Second Thoughts

Tech changes everything, so I think it is safe to assume no one has tech.  Obviously if Germany Gets HB, LRA or Jet Ftrs, that changes everything.

England doesn’t need a lot of income.  All they need is 18 ipc per turn, that fills 3 trns, anything over that is a bonus.  This of course assumes you have units already on the board from round 1 and 2.

NO’s are fine and all, but I still value position over them.  Japan can have Aus/Ind and Fra is overrated.  I’d never attack there just to get the 5 extra ipc.  There better be a bigger strategic value, like I can actually
hold it through the G/I counter or I’m killing a bunch of G planes for UK Inf.  I’ll galdly sacrifice NO’s if it means I control Kar to Belo to Mos.

The reason the Gemany and Japan incomes in the 50’s aren’t that bad is b/c:
1)  German build limit of 10 units.
-Germany needs to take/hold Kar or buy another IC, otherwise they only place 10 units per turn in Berlin.
-UK and Rus can match with ~12-16 units per turn that jumps up to 20+ if US joins in
2)  Japan build limit of 8 units.
-In order to take Adv of 50+ you’ll need at least 2 IC
-The Allies don’t need to buy any extra ICs
3)  Japan to Mos is longer.
-Japan to Mos is 6-7 turns
-UK to Kar is 1 turn, UK to Mos is 3
-US to Kar is 2 (from Ecan), 4 to Mos (from Ecan)
4)  It is still cheaper to defend
-I’ll take a slightly lower income if it means I control the center of the board (Kar to Mos/Cauc and Alg to Egy).  Once I feel safe in that, then I’ll pick off the outlaying areas.

It is much easier to recover from losing Ind/Aus/Safr or other NOs in the first few rds then it is losing Kar or Cauc in G2 or G3.

As for 8 CA, that would be great and all, but I think that’s probably overkill.
Now I’ve only played 2 games as the Allies but you probably only need 1 AC per sz you intend to hold.  So I’d go 1 to Sz 12 and 1 to Sz 6 (then moves to Sz 5 when ready).
But you don’t necessarily need the one in Sz 6 which is when you can employ a CA heavy strat.  To kill 4 dd, 4 ca Germany needs 8 ftrs.  They’d probably clear with 2 ftrs give or take.  That is a pretty heavy investment into air for Ger.  Throw in just one more dd and UK wins outright.  The UK can always match Ger air buys with dds, although I try to keep the DD level down since they are pretty useless once you have naval supremacy so I like to keep just enough for a first wave and prefer if the US buys them.  The US can at least use them for Ita or the Med as fodder if they aren’t needed in the North that way the UK can get more bang out of its buck with say 4 CA vs 6 dd.

I find the benefit of the multiple CA (say you have 6), is you can now legitimately attack 3 ter with 2 inf, 2 CA shots and reinforce one ter (probably kar) with 2 inf.  It essentially deadzones NWE, Pol, BST and make for a powerful assualt on Kar when you can go 8-12 inf (0-4 inf from Fin), multiple CA-shots, then only subject 1-2 ftrs, 1 bom (if planes are needed) to AA fire.  It also forces more Axis inf to Fra.  It is is better to see inf there then on the boarder of Russia.

Darlin, 50 IPC into 10 Units can be 10 Tanks.  that’s pretty bad.  Also, many players (myself EXCLUDED) like a complex in France (+6 units).  And of course, there’s Improved Factories making it 12 Units cap in Germany.

Just some ideas.

All tank buys won’t win you the game.  8-)
The Allies will chew those up with strafes.  Welcome to my lair said the spider to the fly.

And again successful tech changes everything, so it can be excluded.

No, but all tank buys can break down Russia pretty fast.  Besides, I’d probably break that 60 IPC (which is where i find Germany often enough) into a few research dice, maybe an aircraft or two, some tanks, and infantry with the odd artillery thrown in for fun. (Or a lot of artillery if I get Advanced Artillery!)

I have played about 6 games now. And 5 times the allies have won(the more experienced players on the axis). We played with tech but without NO’s. I have to disagree with the original poster. Without NO the game is far from balanced.

The one game that the axis was won on turn 1. The UK bought two IC’s one in India and one in Africa and Russia bought two researchers and 4 tanks.

I don’t think Jenn was advocating an all tank buy. She was merely pointing out that only having the German IC and earning 50 or so a turn is not really a problem. The problem I see is peoples minds are still stuck in classic. The only thing that defends worse than infantry is a bomber nothing else attacks worse. And no I am not advocating NOT buying Infantry I am pointing out that buying ALL infantry aint worth a flip.

And as far as Japan having to buy ICs that is no problem for them and they should have done so buy round 3 at the latest. It isn’t like they are strapped for cash.

No, I am not advocating an all tank buy.  Just mentioning that if you are limited to 10 builds, 50 IPC can be spend on all tanks.  As I clarified in my original post, I’d probably be breaking that up and getting some research too, (unless I had all the techs I personally wanted.)

@Cmdr:

Darlin, 50 IPC into 10 Units can be 10 Tanks.  that’s pretty bad.  Also, many players (myself EXCLUDED) like a complex in France (+6 units).  And of course, there’s Improved Factories making it 12 Units cap in Germany.

Just some ideas.

I don’t like the France IC either. I opposed it being provided to Germany as a gift IC because I thought it would be too powerful for Germany’s G1 opening but, as a purchased IC, it’s anti SBR benefit is offset by the fact that it is further from the front than the Germany IC and it makes France even more of a must defend territory than it already is.

I prefer the Poland IC build. It is closer to Russia, it is protected from landings from sz12, it is defended by inf/art moving from the Germany IC toward Russia, it’s cheaper to repair than the France or Germany IC’s, and it is the perfect defensive strongpoint to hold back the Russians when the Allied war of attrition begins to collapse my fronts because it helps protect my core territory NO.

And with 13 units to build, if I’m earning 50+, I have the luxury of building a fighter or bomber if I feel like it or large numbers of art/armor if I feel otherwise. But, even when I’m pushed out of Russia, I’m usually making enough income to keep it at least partially operational.

I find it easier to bomb France than Germany.  But I like the Allied SBR campaigns. :)

I also do not find tech to be erratic.  Sure, you won’t get the one you are looking for all of the time, but almost all of them are good to have and you can narrow your focus by eliminating half the choices right off the bat. (Chart 1 or Chart 2)  As you fill in a chart the odds of getting the one you want increase dramatically.

1 in 6 for the first
1 in 5 for the second
1 in 4 for the third
1 in 3 for the fourth
1 in 2 for the really unlucky
guaranteed for the insanely unlucky

Depends on the country I have been seeing the higher income countries having around 3 or so by about turn 6.

I’ve been routinely getting 1 a round for each major nation (Germany/Japan and USA/UK) from Rounds 2 through 6 or 7 so that’s what, 8-12 per side?  Maybe an extra one for Russia?  (Sometimes I hope to get Advanced Artillery for Russia, but I don’t use lots of cash for them.)

I am starting to see games go well past that now. People are starting to get a better feel for the game and some strategies and such are starting to emerge.

Here is an example this is in turn 9
Improved Artillery: UK, Russia
Rockets: none 
Paratroopers: Germany
Improved Industry: Germany
War Bonds: UK, Russia
Mechanized Infantry, Germany

Super Subs: US, Japan
Jets: none
Shipyards: none
Radar:none
Long Range: none
Heavy Bombers: UK

It is Italy’s turn and the only country with a researcher is currently Russia.

Keep in mind that this is online play and some of us have 5 or 6 games going at once so that is why some of our observations may seem way different. I have played around 20 games already.

I routinely have 4 researchers going at any one time (usually per nation, sometimes for my two researching nations.)  Unlike in other games of Axis and Allies, tech has been a MAJOR blessing in my games (except with Runnyan where for some reason, I’ve fired like 42 tech rolls and gotten 1 tech….)

I have not unlocked all 6 in one chart with 1 nation yet.  Normally, by the time I get 4 in one chart, I’ve gotten the one or two I wanted anyway.

I have gotten 8 with one nation before (5 in chart 2, 3 in chart 1.)  That was a fun game! (It was also Germany who was the monster the monsters are afraid of!  I crushed Egypt without losses and from there owned Africa for the entire game.  Italy had India.  It was a mess.)

@TG:

Keep in mind that this is online play and some of us have 5 or 6 games going at once so that is why some of our observations may seem way different. I have played around 20 games already.

Online play does have its perks – easier to find players, board is already set up, steps like combat resolution and collect income are done automatically, but for me, nothing compares to the real thing.  I do use Triple A on occasion, but it’s ugly, clunky, and buggy.  In all fairness the program is free.

Battlemap is free too and it’s more widely used than TripleA, it also has that added ability that you can edit the map on your computer to leave notes for yourself that your opponent cannot see if you want.

Also, I think I’ve broken 50 games of Anniversary already.  So far, I can say, Tech and NOs are the key to winning the game.  If you do go for Tech or can steal your opponents NOs early on (usually the Axis taking out NOs since most Axis NOs are easily recoverable) you’ll probably win.

If you do not go for tech, you’re hamstringing yourself.  IMHO, the NOs are there specifically for tech buys, allowing you full IPC for builds and NO bonuses for technologies. (Hence why NOs are so important as well!)

To me that means America should be doing no less than +1 researcher every round.  Period.

Germany is probably +1 or 2 a round, maybe as much as 3.

Italy is 0, but only because with NOs it’s earning in the low 20s and needs to send everything it can to Hold France and stop England from taking it anymore. (I find 15 infantry, 5 armor and 2 fighters does this nicely.)

Japan’s probably doing 3 or 4 researchers at any given time.

Of course, NOs are something you don’t get until after the first turn, therefore, technology is something I don’t think you should try for until your second turn.  Though, once I did get Long Range on England 1, which was fun until none of my pilots could hit squat and the Italian navy shot me down. :/

Next:  The Key to Europe is East Poland.  If you own East Poland, you basically have the center four squares of the chess board.

The Key to the other side of Russia is Chinghai (if you have it, there’s no China anymore anyway.)

The Key to America is, yer screwed, America’s got 40-50 IPC income, you can’t even land enough troops in time to own America, give it up!

The Key to Japan is SZ 51 and/or SZ 64 (Alaska or Carolines.)

I like Carolines myself, they give England a NO and you can hit Iwo Jima or Okinawa from there and set up bomber airstrips.

For once, SBR is not broken.  FINALLY!  There is now an officially released game where you can actually do SOMETHING about being SBRed into oblivion, and if you cannot afford the damage, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY IT!  Meanwhile, the risk to the enemy has only gone down slightly compared to before.

That said, I’d like to see a few changes:

1)  Super Submarines.  WTF is this still doing in the game???  I mean, HONESTLY!  Has this EVER been the “go to” technology for the majority of players!?!?!  Can we please replace this with AA Guns for Battleships and/or Carriers? (Same rule applies, only one can fire at a time)  Or if that’s too powerful for you, maybe Shipyards for Aircraft?  Fighters cost 9, Bombers cost 10?  Again, if that’s too powerful (aren’t I nice, I give you THREE options!) how about mobile industrial complexes?  They can move 1 space and can only go to territories you own! (You can’t build in them until the next turn.)

2)  Italy needs a third National Objective.  Before you run screaming from the room tearing out your hair at the blasphemy, I’m not talking something easy to get.  The third should be:  Axis Control of Ukraine, Caucasus, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Gibraltar, France, Bulgaria, Italy and Balkans and be 5 IPC.  That should be easily stoppable in most situations, but at least reward Italy for doing something other than buffing the defenses of France.

3)  Destroyers should only defend at 2 if they have a transport or more with them.  Otherwise, they should defend at 1.

4)  Escort carriers would be snazzy.  But now we’re adding in extra units and that’s normally a bozo-no-no.  If we did, however, it would have to att 0, def 0 carry 1 fighter.  Maybe cost 8 or 7.

5)  Russia should have another NO for keeping SFE, Buryatia, Stanovoj, Yakut, Evenki and Urals in Russian control.  5 IPC.  It’s easy enough for Japan to stop if they want too, and since Japan normaly doesn’t want too, it will aid Russia in holding back the Germanic hoards.

6)  Honestly, can England have a navy on UK 1?  Please?

7)  Perhaps each nation should start with 1 Technology Right off.  USA/UK/Japan:  Improved Shipyards.  Italy/Germany/Russia: Advanced Artillery.  Neither is overly powerful, but they’d give the game an added depth.  (Think like the optional rule that Germany had Jet Power and Japan Super Submarines in Classic.  This is not unprecedented!)