In many games, Jap place IC in Fic because it’s convenient. Fic’s a good place for IC, with or without IC in SA.
What should Jap do with IC in SA? I wouldn’t do any moves I normally wouldn’t do. Maybe India could be contested later in the game.
In a very long game, 14 rnds or more, Jap would have problems with conquering Afr, which often is a good strat,
if Jap cannot take Moscow, and if not US still stucks to AE-Persia…and I would rather move my US fleet to northern Europe if Afr is secured.
Maybe UK can secure Afr alone with IC in SA? I would really like that if I play allies.
I agree, Japan normally ends up with Industrials in both FIC and India anyway. The Industrial in S. Africa is at least relatively secure from the enemy for a number of rounds and if it does fall, eventually, it serves no real benefit to the axis. However, just keeping Germany from getting Africa can save the allies a net of hundreds of IPC over the life of the game (I get that by combining the income lost to germany resulting in less units purchased, the increase income to England resulting in more units purchased, the less defenders/attackers hitting the allies and the increase attacker/defenders resisting German aggression.)
It could also possibly psychologically prevent the Japanese from moving to Africa early on, because they know if they do that then inf will pop up and prevent it from making Africa a windfall. And if they don’t move towards Africa, then simply don’t build anything and save your money.
I think you may have missed my point earlier. If Great Britan pulls back from India to support Africa, then you are giving the Japanese player another 3 IPCs each turn 'cause he will take India with little to no resistence. Instead of swaping with Japan by fighting back-and-forth (India-FIC), you will be swapping back-and-forth (India-Persia) at best. The accumulation of 3 IPCs every turn coupled with their total domination of the IO will easily pay for an IC in FIC and you will likely face two Japanese ICs on mainland Asia instead of only one. Their eventual momentum in Asia from this could give them better chances to partake of some Africa. Am I missing something in all this?
Am I missing something in all this?
You missed the fact that India belongs to Jap from J1-J2, or J3 latest. Unless you want to move Russian units to India.
Afr is worth 11 ipc, India is worth 3 ipc :roll:
About Jap IC on the mainland, I sometimes had 4!! Usually I see 2 IC, 3 IC is not very unusual, but not very common either.
2 Jap IC is the strat I see in most games. Fic is the TT where most Jap players place the first IC.
Sometimes Manch, and India also. Kwang is not often used for IC.
Exactly my reasoning. India is just impossible to defend reliably beyond UK1 or 2. Why not just use those defenders to try to hold at least the southern half of Africa and force Germany to split their forces fighting there?
Exactly my reasoning. India is just impossible to defend reliably beyond UK1 or 2. Why not just use those defenders to try to hold at least the southern half of Africa and force Germany to split their forces fighting there?
Well then you give Japan a cheap India and if Germany ignore africa (since the allies have invested so much in it: non-combated units, purchased an IC) Russia could be in trouble as a strong quick Axis push is possible.
I think if Russia does well R1, that helps make the SAF IC more desirable.
i don’t think it makes USSR in trouble, ya from Japan, but not as much from Germany as they also arn’t geting the IPC’s from Affrica (or atleast not as many) meaning they have less ground troops for Europe to buy each turn. also it gives the UK more ground troops to ship to USSR to hold out, or push into Norway that much sooner and hold it.
this also allows the US to not go for affrica and accually fight for it so they can start shiping men to UK/affrica to make there big Europe push OR allows them to put more pressure on Japan earlier.
if Germany sees this and says “it’s a waist of my resources” then it frees up Japan but also frees up UK and US, well both USSR and Germany both suffer about the same (Germany less troops each turn/ USSR gets hit by Japan sooner/harder).
if Germany sees the factory and shots for it, then less troops to fight USSR, and the UK can hold the German advance for long enough for US to get there. so again good for the Allies (only not AS good as if Germany dosn’t go for it).
i think this factory is a good stratagy for the UK as it adds much to the Allies, and only hurts Germany with the posibility of hurting Japan.
Just b/c UK may pull out of Ind on Rd 1, does not necessarily mean they give it to Japan.
UK can counter Ind with 1 inf + bom for 2-3 turns, assuming Japan is only going in with max of 2 inf, which is probably a safe assumption in this case since the have to take China in rd 1 and the UK still has a solid IO presence. The UK can also shuttle troops from Ken back to Per or Ind since they should have their AC, dd, and trn (or trns) around.
If Japan does sink them that helps the US in their Pac build up.
Outside of the Safr IC, I find pulling out of Ind and the continued threat by UK troops in Per a pretty good deterent against Japan for quite a few turns which is why I don’t like to counter Egy all that often.
Trying to hold India is usually a losing propositon. Better to pull the forces out and redploy to Africa.
That depends on your long term objectives.
If the Allies can trade India for 2-3 turns, it can be a very positive move for the Allies in a SJF game, especially if combined with an early Allied move into Africa (both North and South). And though i have never played using it, with a UOSA IC placed immediately, combined with moves such as a UK Fleet Consolidation in SZ30, trading India for several turns, UK and USA into Algeria and then central Africa, and solid moves w/o dice fracks by Russia… It can result in the Axis never gaining the economic boost they need to combat the Allies effectively.
:roll:
I have considered the SA IC and rejected it long ago. Even with a good R1 the innitial investment of 15 IPC is one that demands near future builds, most likely 2 tanks, (10 more IPC )! That is 25 IPC that will not be getting to aid Russia, ever! Germany can easily reinforce Egypt for a couple of turns before it either loses its’ Med fleet or successfully defends the attacks from the south. All the time drawing off more UK funds that should be helping Russia. As the Axis player I am grateful for all this nonsense. I will push my large Infantry buys towards Russia without fear of my flanks being threatened from the British. And my Nippon navy will be steaming full force for SA on J2 with all transports fully loaded. It will be a short delay in Asia, but well worth it.
That’s my 2 rubles worth on this flawed Strat.
C.I. :roll:
That Japan move leaves some nice openings for the Allies (remember I said a UOSA IC was viable in a SJF game).
Russia will have 6 INF massed in Bury after R1 (typical SJF R1 move). W/o major reinforcement of Asia, Manchuria falls on R2 (+3 to Russia).
Sinkiang will also remain US Controlled, inviting another IC by the Allies on US1 due to the lack of Japan forces in Asia
2 INF, 1 ART, 1 ARM are dropped from EUS into Algeria on US1, and a ship or 2 to reinforce the SZ55 fleet.
Now, is Japan going to go full tilt toward Africa under those circumstances? Probably not the best move Japan can make at that point.
Again, I am not saying a UOSA IC is an excellent strat, but it is a viable strat, especially if not countered correctly. And your statements above are not the best counter because:
1. It draws Japan away from their main economic expansion areas early and allows Russia to gain income (and more men to counter Germany).
2. It forces Germany to keep sending forces to the African meat grinder ($6 minimum per turn)
3. It allows the US to Island Hop, unless Japan spend more money on fleet (more IPC’s not going into manpower against Russia)
And ARM built in UOSA is not completely wasted even if Africa is abandoned by the Axis. 3 turns to get ARM to Caucuses to help the Russians, compared to 2 turns from London via TRNs in SZ4. Not that much of a delay in exchange for keeping Germany down $2 instead of up $10 in Africa.
SA IC might be a feasible strat if UK is to sure hold it. If G builds a trans in med, or start with a med trans bid, then G can take the
factory in SA if they want to, and also with some help from Jap perhaps. Then G would probably keep Afr for many rnds,
and US have use 3 rnds just to take it back…
UK should not build IC in SA if G go AE heavy in G1. If UK knows for sure they take back AE, and that the UK pac fleet
can live long enough to reach SA then perhaps.
I can’t say for sure that it’s not gonna work, but again I wonder why I hardly can recall to have seen this strat before.
even if Germany makes a push for Africa, if the US takes the opertunity they can drop some troops right into Africa on US1 to also slow the Germans… the UK may even be able to drop troops via Transport if need be, although i don’t see that as a good idea. the idea is to make sure the Germans don’t gain Africa, and with that complex there i think it can work even if both Germany and Japan make a push for it as it pulls both nations from there other more vital front of the USSR.
as is with most stratagies it’s a gamble, but it is one that i think can work for the Allies if the US and UK both work with it.
Pervavita, you might wanna try this strat against me. Just for fun. LL or ADS up to you. No tech.
Use triplea.
I can host via hamachi.
I’m a newb so it will be an easy victory for you.
no techs: wast of $, never use them… although with the new rules it is interesting to try them out. but ya, i’m not a fan of techs any way.
now i’m a big Japan buff, i avoid UK and US like the plauge, no joke.
now i have only ever played 1 game on the new board (secound comes up this weekend/hope to get a third too), so i can’t say i’m not a nob ether.
LL or ADS up to you.
i’m new hear so havn’t picked up there meaning for sure, i think LL is ment to be low luck or no dice… no clue how that works. ADS i guess means with dice, or some other thing meaning just that.
Use triplea
no clue what that means, sorry
I can host via hamachi
again not sure what this means…. i’m sure its one way to play online, but i never have so not sure how it works.
now as for the game, you Axis, me Allies. got that (i hate playing allies), but i’m up for it.
open a thread in the “game’s in progress” or where ever it’s suppost to go so we arn’t taking up space hear… as we are now OFF TOPIC… atleast untell we get results. i may need lots of help getting started (but not with stratagy)
I don’t play by forum. Real Men Play Real Time. Teh Real Deal :wink:
Step 1.
http://triplea.sourceforge.net/mywiki
Step 2.
https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/vpn.asp?lang=en
If you have any questions, we can use the software forum, player help forum, or send me a pm.
thx, but the game will have to wait then. i’m at work :wink:
Sure. I play everyday sometimes. I can play almost anytime. Send a pm if you wanna play, and we sort out the details.
