What I mean is I want them to know its just 20 pages from the index…that is reader knows in the first few pages.
++++++ yes i will fix it. I will add some structure to it.
+++++ i will see what i can do . I tried that before and it always sticks it in every place except the front. :cry:
You saying we shouldn’t jump the number too quickly?
++++++ It looks like its 3 revisions. 3.1 could actually be many more than 3… 1.1,1.2.1.8,2.9,3.0,3.1 wheras 1.3 is at least the same system as LHTR
Or you mean to call 1.3 just because its LHTR 1.3.
That we can’t do cos how are we going to do versioning?
+++++++ no thats not the reason but it is to make it consistent with THAT other system
Because Allies goes after Axis. Axis don’t have chance to respond to unreasonable/un-hold-able suicide attack by Allies.
If its accessed in real-time you can put a different argument and make both teams defend against such method to victory.
+++++++OK then how should it read??
But its useful for naval construction. Whats the playability issues? Even SBR rule catered for it.
++++ thats correct. good point. ok then how should it read?
Its too difficult to even grasp from the viewpoint of any newcomer to this variant any idea what that was. I must have read that thing 20 times and nothing got any clearer
its not adding anything fun to the game at all.
I hope you were NOT reading the version that requires writing things down. The latest version requires no writing down.
+++++ i was reading the last version and the wording was very convoluted. OK can you rephrase the original meaning in very simple language?
Lets work something out. Anything but forcing a particular route of convoy. Its important for AARHE as we don’t just build at ICs.
+++ ok sure but that old convoy system is not a very crisp rule. lets rephrase it a bit and come back to it?
I am fine not able to go into Baltic without control of Denmark. I just don’t see the difference between that and canal treatment.
++++ Denmark is part of Germany. Denmark is too small to be represented. Allies need control of Germany to be able to pass into the Baltic and they cannot cross into the 5th sea zone. The only way to get to the Baltic is invade Germany by france. By then the games really over anyway and history is satisfied.
I think you should fight on without IC. You could have a sizeable force (without may include plenty of armor) and maybe the enemy made a suicide attack. We have various game modes let them do their job.
+++++ ok yes i didnt make it clear. You can still fight on but you cant build… which for all intents means your out of the game unless you retake a factory. You are still playing but are basically ‘partisans’
Again make the Axis likely to be in similar situation in 1942 but don’t force it to happen or else whats the point of 1939 scenario.
++++ yes this is the real issue. To allow for different paths to win but to get the axis to a decent point where the game has not been decided yet. This will have to be playtesting job
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Page 11. “If at any time one side has only air units remaining in battle they must be retreated to
a friendly territory within ½ flight range.” I think attacking air units retreat with normal range. Defending air units retreat within 1 space previously. Define “1/2 flight range”.
+++++++ this creates a problem borne out in play testing for other games. The range is too great allowing for “always on” DAS. The idea would be to be able to create holes in the fighter screen so a player has to choose where he picks his battles and cant defend everywhere at the same time. Otherwise the DAS effect is too great.
This is how it was.
Attacking air units retreat normally. ie. 1/2 of movement points so 2 for normal fighter. Hence don’t change that sentence. Talk about it in DAS or defender retreat.
Now what you care about is DAS. DAS still doesn’t let you fight in more than one space.
Defending air units (which includes DAS) don’t retreat base on their flight range. They can only retreat 1 space away.
The only thing is that DAS can reach 2 space away.
++++ ok ill fix it. good
AA in non-combat move. You want to get rid of it then thats fine. LHTR does it that way too.
You want to remove flying-over AA fire. Thats fine too. Just say they are at long distance flight height.
But don’t change AA fire back to first cycle. We’ve already tuned the numbers. Personally I didn’t see AA being powerful at all. Its 2.8% chance per ID. We can reduce the no. of implicit ID and you get rid of search roll for SBR. Then less fighter loss more bomber loss which is what you want.
++++ ok then how should it then read?? 1) no non-combat AA guns, 2) AA fire in every round? 3)possible changes in hit ratios? please post your idea.
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Page 12. Amphibious Assault Shore Bombardment is limited to one hit every four attacking land units (which probably should be changed to count INF and Airborne only). Not one SB roll every four attacking land units.
++++ yes to be more accurate because only infantry types can land on the first round. I will add
Note its hits that are limited not rolls.
+++++OK ill get it done.
In AARHE submarines always fire in opening-fire. Destroyers takes hits for capital ships and then chases with ASW. Destroyers then fire in main round.
In OOB destroyers don’t get to fire twice. Negating the opening-fire works out similar to screening and ASW.
The idea is air and submarines attack first. Casualties don’t get to fight in main round (gun battle).
++++OK please phrase what it should read. I’m lost on this point.
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Page 14. Naval anti-air is very different to land combat. Naval anti-air is more powerful due to no terrain over and no emergency landing. Naval anti-air is not pre-emptive because the target IS the anti-air. No flak guns shots popping up at the unexpected places.
+++++ how it works is if the enemy has no CAP or air units then the enemy air has a distinct advantage, Naval AA rolls are very weak and the ONLY thing to fight planes… which is what it should be… if on sea you have no fighters you are sitting ducks… The only compensation is to allow the ships to gain preemptive hits and CA/ DD screens of targeted attacks IMO
You are confusing me. The rule and justification is sort of based on what you said back then.
Anyway. Start again. Is naval AA is weak or strong compared to ground AA?
If weak then we bring back the search roll and done. Then we don’t have to use preemptive as compensation.
these don’t have to be tied together. The AA value on sea is the number of ROLLS the ship may make and each roll is hitting on a 1 result. Over land its a 1 to search and a second 1 for a kill, and a 2 or 3 sends the bomber home and it doesn’t perform its primary mission.
DD gets one roll
BB gets 2 rolls
CA gets 3 rolls
CV gets whatever it gets ( i forgot)
It should be preemptive because unlike land combat these ships are moving much faster and the plane needs to be closer and thats why the fire is preemptive, a torpedo attack requires the plane is perpendicular profile to the warship ans it must fly at a level, which gives the ship an advantage to fire at it first.
Actually I think its still quite “happy” at 25% vs. 33%.
And how long you want this happy time? UK starts with 1 of 3 progress boxes. (1942). UK can put 2 develop weapons rolls on ASW per turn. (1 free + 1 purchasable.) Thats 6 turns on average.
+++++Yes very good point! ok then how should it then read?
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Page 16. Counter-Air Mission. No need to explicitly say one cycle air-only attack.
+++++ actually i need to this allows air units to fly over and fight only air units. This cannot take the form of multiple round attacks. It needs to be clarified.
Air only attack can’t do multi cycle anyway. You must retreat cos only defender has land units.
Air units might dogfight first.
++++So you can already do everything in combat. Setting it aside as mission might be confusing.
Not really. A counter air mission is fighting air units specifically. It needs to be its own mission to let people understand that you can do this. To assume that they know “planes always fight planes and land units don’t harm them” works great in the normal combat sequence… BUT it may not be at all clear that they can by inference NOW just send over air units and fight EVEN without land units… this is important for newbies to grasp.
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Page 16. Ground Interdiction. What happens if enemy has air units remaining in the territory? What happens when the bomber is attacked in enemy’s turn? Ground interdiction was the way it was for various reasons. I wanted to expand air missions before but there is much work involving air units.
++++++it says they fly back home they cannot attack without land units in support.
The thing is interdiction used to be during YOUR turn. Now its during ENEMY’s turn? Yet normal movement isn’t affected.
I think it should be during YOUR turn. Fly back home this same turn.
++++ ok wait a sec. You still fly your units during your turn and they remain in those enemy territories and stop strategic movement thru this territory. On your next turn they are returned home and can then be used for further missions. isn’t that what it reads?
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Page 17. Strait Interdiction. No longer need value column in the table. 2 dice if you hold both territories right? ++++ not really. Gibraltar does not require both sides. Why don’t we need ‘value’ column?
Cos its always “1” now. Previously we had Denmark which was “2”. Now its just “1”.
++++ ok well get it fixed
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Page 17. The Strategic Redeployment might not be a good model. Maybe better to draw rail lines.
++++++ oh no. this is a really good idea to avoid marking up the map. I considered this with the map but it looked horrible. Remember bombers can reduce the SR capacity.
Yeah more map marking is not nice. But I feel just a number “8” would be weird.
Traffic in western europe shouldn’t reduce capacity in eastern europe?
That system is what they use in The War Game, but that allows many (too many) post movements. Our system has a more abstract simpler mechanism behind it.
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Page 18. “Built naval units are placed adjacent to either an Industrial Complex or a controlled Victory City.” What do you mean Victory City?++++ yes exactly
So you can just build naval units at VC now? Repairing at VC makes sense. But building?
+++ huh? the rule is unchanged as before. you place new units in only sea zones that are adjacent to either a factory or failing that, a SZ adjacent to any VC, because in some cases a factory is not adjacent to a sea zone. what is at issue here? i am unclear.
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Page 19. Advanced Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW). Should list modifiers not specific numbers. All air units? All same value? +++++ please explain not clear
Modifiers like +1. Rather than redefining base value which can be confusing.
Is it your intention for all air units to perform ASW? And all at the same effectiveness?
A simple system would be only bombers can do ASW.
++++Planes perform ASW only after the tech is acquired to allow for this. Other than that i think that bombers can conduct ASW search ( but not combat)
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Page 22. Neutral Military Deployment. Would be more realistic if 1939 had 1939 values? Did Spain and Turkey have such a large force in 1939?
++++++ its best if we keep them strong, because the axis didn’t really have the capacity to take out large neutrals and its consistent for memory on the set up. A few different pieces will not ADD to the game.
Just checking like it can be funny. 1942 neutral forces copied over. And then 1939 map has more neutrals territories and more neutral units.
++++ well Germany has alot of neutrals to punish for being foolish neutrals… :mrgreen:
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Page 23. Appendix. Carrier was attack 1 defence 1.
You didn’t reply to this one.
To rehash we made CV 1/1 and AP 0/0 because the argument is escort no longer need to be explicit addition of DD and CA from AA classic.
++++ this was a tough decision… the carrier must have something more than one to account for a cruiser hull platform. a 2 is reasonable, while a 3 is too much. AP is junk and even a spitball could sink a transport.