Look to build a DDay fleet with US/Uk and then force Germnay to hold France before attacking SU allowing the Su to build up an attack from the east. Once SU comes into battle US should focus on retaking india nad attack some mainland asian territories
German strategy for building AC
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Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.
What are you buying???
To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf. Â G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â G3 I bought 12inf 1arm, and I’ve only just finished UK3, so those 12inf are in Germany. Â Due to attrition (e.g. taking back Ukraine G2 with 2inf 1ftr, taking Karel 2inf 1ftr, then losing those infantry to counter-attacks), I have only 10inf in E.Eur, 1inf in Balkans, Russia holds WRus, Ukr, Belo, Karel, UK holds Norway. Â Believe me, I’ve tried, but I couldn’t do better than one big stack in EEur with 10inf 1art 5arm. Â I’ve basically followed the moves ad described by experienced members of the forum who have played G1 1AC 12inf. Â My goal is to see how that initial buy plays out, and not surprisingly it has led to an early Russian lead. :-) Â But I am far from giving up hope!
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Couldnt you bid for a Restricted Russia and then no longer need an axis bid? How would that effect game play?
In the original A&A, restricted Russia was one way to make it a bit tougher on the Allies. In Revised, I’m not sure I would want to play a Restricted Russia! I agree with Nix. WRus is too critical.
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Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.
What are you buying???
To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf. Â G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â
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I presume you have 5 fighters still. You do NOT need armor or artillery. You are trading Belo/Karelia/Ukr. This requires sacrificing INFANTRY, not armor. G2 buy should be as much INF as possible, with art/tank left over. In this case, 11 Inf, 1 armor.
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A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
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see post above. USSR cant have the O power to defeat your D strength… (or wouldn’t with all INF buys)
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Trying to follow a “script”, even a “master’s” usually results in trouble. The best thing you can do is learn to think “outside the box”, experiment, and try to determine overall strategies and counters. Dont be tied down to one “set” way of doing things.
Squirecam
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@Nix:
that would kill the Allies.
But on the topic of being outnumbered by Russia, NO BIG DEAL, why? becuse you defend better then Russia can attack, he will most likley lack offensive punch.
Likewise, if Germany buys ships and Russia moves in to hold Ukr early it becomes very hard or costly (or both) to push them out.
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- A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
I bolded the important part.
Edit: Just to clarify.
I don’t think a sole AC purchase threatens much of anything.
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- A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
I bolded the important part.
Buying an AC alone won’t do that. At least not IMO.
Depends. Sometimes it will sometimes not.
Squirecam
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@Nix:
that would kill the Allies.
But on the topic of being outnumbered by Russia, NO BIG DEAL, why? Â becuse you defend better then Russia can attack, he will most likley lack offensive punch.
Likewise, if Germany buys ships and Russia moves in to hold Ukr early it becomes very hard or costly (or both) to push them out.
Right, that’s what is about to happen to me if I don’t do something quick! :-o
Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.
What are you buying???
To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf. Â G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â
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I presume you have 5 fighters still. You do NOT need armor or artillery. You are trading Belo/Karelia/Ukr. This requires sacrificing INFANTRY, not armor. G2 buy should be as much INF as possible, with art/tank left over. In this case, 11 Inf, 1 armor.
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A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
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see post above. USSR cant have the O power to defeat your D strength… (or wouldn’t with all INF buys)
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Trying to follow a “script”, even a “master’s” usually results in trouble. The best thing you can do is learn to think “outside the box”, experiment, and try to determine overall strategies and counters. Dont be tied down to one “set” way of doing things.
Squirecam
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Yes, I have 3ftr WEur 2ftr on AC, 1ftr EEur. Â I bot just 1art, with an extra IPC; that doesn’t hurt, it will help later when I attack.
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Yes, on G2 and G3 I moved my naval units to attempt merge, but due to a block it cannot happen until G4 at earliest, if US navy doesn’t sink most of my fleet. :wink:
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Russia has 4art 4arm 2ftr at the front lines, along with 20inf. Â They don’t lack offensive punch.
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Agreed. Â This is only my third game of Revised, so this whole German AC approach is new and outside the box for me. Â You’re basically reading my thoughts expressed as AAR (after action reports) turn by turn as I discover how this works. :-)
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You need to Merge G2. Merging G4 is way too late.
Squirecam
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You need to Merge G2. Merging G4 is way too late.
Squirecam
I understand, but there are consequences to that approach, too. First, I might have even less inf in EEur unless I had used the trn G2 to move 2inf. (That goes back to a mistake of having left 3inf in Balk after G1.) Second, G2 I used SZ15 to add more troops to the middle east. Perhaps another mistake, but there it is.
This is starting to feel a bit like Risk, where a common strategy was to have one or two big stacks and leave next to nothing everywhere else! I’ve got a lot to learn…
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So what? Pull out of E. Europe and Balkans with Germany, leave 1 infantry there. Unify your fleet, force the Allies out of SZ 3, 6, 7, 8 and 12, then push the Russians back.
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So what? Pull out of E. Europe and Balkans with Germany, leave 1 infantry there. Unify your fleet, force the Allies out of SZ 3, 6, 7, 8 and 12, then push the Russians back.
Pull out of EEur to where?
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to Germany, build 10 infs or what you can afford, and push back into EEur with force the following round, gives russia some short time cash but he can´t break Germany alone in any circumstance since it´s easier to defend then to attack and “traditionally” Russia tend to lack offensive punch.
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@Nix:
to Germany, build 10 infs or what you can afford, and push back into EEur with force the following round, gives russia some short time cash but he can´t break Germany alone in any circumstance since it´s easier to defend then to attack and “traditionally” Russia tend to lack offensive punch.
Retreat? Der Fuhrer will have me shot!!! I understand what you all are saying, but it sure runs counter to my instincts. What the, maybe I’ll give it a try… Still hinges on unifying the fleet (not a given) and the Japanese tank drive to Moscow. Too much talk on my part, I need to get home and play! :-D
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newpaintbrush:Â But instead of attacking Karelia on G2, you COULD have attacked Archangel on G2
BTW, I generally do not advocate attacking Archangel on G2. Woops (?)
newpaintbrush:Â The trick is threatening Russia on the north and the south.
I wonder if I’m doing something wrong, because the numbers don’t add up for me to threaten both north and south.
And that’s the trick. It is damn difficult to threaten Russia on north and south. But I should elaborate on what I wrote. It’s not really a matter of ATTACKING Russia so much as pulling Russia into Germany’s infantry. (I think). By that, I mean - let us say that Germany had a big stack at Ukraine that Russia couldn’t attack (because of lots of German infantry). Then let us say that if Russia can’t really afford to attack, Russia must then decide between protecting EITHER West Russia or Caucasus (because Russia should not have enough infantry to protect BOTH West Russia AND Caucasus against a big German stack). So Russia is forced to choose ONE, and Germany takes the OTHER. And when Germany DOES take the other, then Russia is forced to decide between protecting the territory it’s in, or Russia itself (because regardless of whether Germany controls Caucasus or West Russia, it threatens Russia for the next turn). So if Russia still cannot attack the German stack, Russia must pull back to Moscow, and Germany controls Europe and west Asia. Note that I’m not all that great with Axis (at least, judging by my results; I’m not BAD, but I’m not great with em either).
With that said, my AAR for today: heading into J3 things are so-so for the Axis. Panzers took all Africa except S.Afr, and Trans-Jordan fell, but Norway was lost, and R holds Ukr, Belo, W.Rus, Kar. J has not hit its stride yet; just the simple move UK1 destroy J DD in SZ59 makes a significant impact on J’s early game! R3 took Sink back, so J has not made much headway. IC in Kwang and 3trn in SZ61 should get things rolling soon. UK has abandoned India, and US has all but abandoned Pacific due to KGF, so J should now expand.
So you have how many transports total for Japan? I think five is a good minimum.
Back to Germany: once I had a real navy, I wasn’t sure exactly what to do with it. Don’t know if this was a huge mistake or not, but I decided to go for fleet unification. G2 moved from SZ5 to SZ7; Russia went for block by moving sub to SZ12, preventing G3 unification in SZ13. G3 moved SZ7 to SZ12, sinking sub wol. 1BB 1trn moved SZ15 to SZ13. Can the Allies prevent unification?
The Allies shouldn’t be able to stop German fleet unification with just a couple boats/ships, because if they try, German air can just blast those “blockers” away, then Germany’s navy unites during noncombat movement. However, if the Allies have plenty of air, they could potentially just blow up one of Germany’s little fleets before Germany has the chance to unify.
Well, US has 1BB 1DD 3trn in SZ10, plus 4ftr from ACs in SZ8, so the Kriegsmarine will probably be sunk US3, albeit at a high price for the Americans. The long-term consequences of that battle remain to be seen…
Build some German fighters, maybe one a turn. You will see that Germany becomes weakened against the Russians (which is a problem), but IF you kept some German navy intact, the Allies will find it really really difficult to crack either the Baltic or Mediterranean (as soon as they get navy in range, you can suicide the German navy in that area and attack with Luftwaffe, trading your wee navy and perhaps a fighter for the entire combined Allied fleet.
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Oh yeah -
Generally, after you see which way the Allies are going, you start buying fighters with the Axis power under attack.
So on G1, you build a carrier and 8 infantry (or whatever), and on J1 you build 3 transports and a tank. If after US1, there’s a fat Atlantic fleet, on G2, you build 1-2 fighters and infantry plus possibly some other ground units so you can continue to trade with Russia, while Japan gets an industrial complex and more transports, but if there’s a fat Pacific fleet, Germany gets infantry to follow with tanks, while Japan starts builds transport and fighter(s) instead of industrial complex and transports. And you continue to buy around 1 fighter a turn, until you have this gigantic air force.
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First, some housecleaning. Yesterday I was working without detailed notes, so I didn’t quite describe the situation accurately. Way back when, in a response to squirecam’s question about what I was buying, I implied that after G3 my big stack in EEur had only 10inf plus some art and arm and that R had 2:1 inf advantage. It was not quite as bad as that; after G3, the eastern front big stacks were: G in EEur 15inf 3art 7arm, R in WRus 10inf 2art 4arm 1ftr, Cauc 13inf 2art 1ftr, but since R also held Karel, Belo and Ukr, the stacks were not in direct contact. G had only 1inf in Balk and 6inf 1art 2arm in Ger as reserves.
OK, here’s this morning’s AAR. The game is now at begin US5. IPCs: R=23, G=39, UK=25, J=39, US=40. T4 and T5 did not go all that well for the Axis. My attempt at fleet unification was a miserable failure; the US sunk 1AC 1DD 2sub 1trn in SZ12, giving up 3trn 1DD 1ftr, which slowed them down but not enough. UK4 took FWA and US4 took Alg, so Africa will be lost soon. G4 I had 21inf 3art 8arm 1ftr in EEur, whereas the Allies unified in Karel with 22inf 5art 5arm 1ftr, but I passed on attacking that; even if I won I would have left a few arm that would have been destroyed in counter-attack. Now, had I brought 3ftr from WEur I could have done better, but then I would have severely weakened WEur. UK5 threatened 7inf 2art 3arm 1BB against WEur, but spent another turn building up, plus US will now be in position to invade Normandy and SEur. The assassination plot against der Fuhrer is brewing.Â
Ultimately all of this probably means “thumbs down” from me on the G AC buy, because I don’t see what I could really accomplish with it. DarthMaximus said
If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.
and I agree. Perhaps another player could have utilized the AC better; squirecam was right, fleet unification must occur early for the AC buy to work, but then I would have given up some other productive moves. The truth of the matter is that by the time the Kriegsmarine was in range, the Allies combined fleet in SZ8 was too much for me to attack, even with air support.
So what has J been up to? Unfortunately, J has had a bad game. Underestimated stength of R, which rolled well and decimated J arm in Sink on R5. J4 took Hawaii, but US had plenty of defense in WUS, so J5 attacked Aus. Ace! for the Aussies, they actually won. J BB missed, and the rest went downhill. J made a critical error and used one turn to build inf in Kwang instead of all arm, so tank production is deficient. Sure, J can still be a major pain, but I predict it will be too little, too late for the Axis.
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Actually, an AC lets the Germans use their AC-based fighters to threaten territories deeper in Russia. The AC also lets the Germans use their AC based fighters to threaten London. (But you know, fighters based at Western Europe could threaten London anyways).
What happened, I bet, was this: The Allies used their combined navy and air force on YOU. You don’t want that to happen. You want to use the German navy and air force on THEM. Barring that, you want to have big enough of an air force so that if the Allies DO commit their navy and air force, they have to commit pretty much all their navy and air force - and here’s the REAL trick - your navy has to be strong enough defensively so that the Allies cannot effectively hit and run after soaking up a few casualties. That is to say - if the Allies attack with navy and air force “to the death”, leaving Allied navy in the water, you should have enough of a Luftwaffe to destroy the entire rest of the unified Allied fleet with minimal Luftwaffe losses. If the Allies attack and retreat before the core of their force is destroyed, you should have enough fodder and air power to destroy the Allied fleet again with minimal Luftwaffe losses.
Too bad I can’t run TripleA at work. Then we could play a game or two.
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Actually, an AC lets the Germans use their AC-based fighters to threaten territories deeper in Russia. The AC also lets the Germans use their AC based fighters to threaten London. (But you know, fighters based at Western Europe could threaten London anyways).
What happened, I bet, was this: The Allies used their combined navy and air force on YOU. You don’t want that to happen. You want to use the German navy and air force on THEM. Barring that, you want to have big enough of an air force so that if the Allies DO commit their navy and air force, they have to commit pretty much all their navy and air force - and here’s the REAL trick - your navy has to be strong enough defensively so that the Allies cannot effectively hit and run after soaking up a few casualties. That is to say - if the Allies attack with navy and air force “to the death”, leaving Allied navy in the water, you should have enough of a Luftwaffe to destroy the entire rest of the unified Allied fleet with minimal Luftwaffe losses. If the Allies attack and retreat before the core of their force is destroyed, you should have enough fodder and air power to destroy the Allied fleet again with minimal Luftwaffe losses.
Too bad I can’t run TripleA at work. Then we could play a game or two.
Absolutely, I realize now I should have moved Kriegsmarine from SZ5 to SZ7 or so on G2, then attacked Allied navy with everything on G3. Hindsight is 20/20. Or maybe not, I remember Allied navy had no trouble T1 unifying with UK 1BB 1AC 3trn, R 1sub, US 1DD 2trn 2F. Plus whatever they added T2. That would have been one mother of a Jutland II, or whatever you want to call it. I can’t shake the feeling that buying G navy is money wasted, but I’m willing to try it out again with “better” moves.
Oh sure, I would love to get pummeled by you, and your little dog, too! :lol: What’s TripleA? Can I have like 50 extra IPCs on the bid?
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TripleA is a free program that runs Axis and Allies. It has a lot of maps; Classic, Revised, BigWorld, Pact of Steel, thingy, other thingy. It uses an online dice server for multiplayer email games so there isn’t cheating (the dice server emails the results of dice rolls to players). You can also play live games. You can also play against the TripleA AI, which is pretty horrible, but still a miracle considering it’s all free.
BTW, the program looks pretty good.
Do a web search for “TripleA”. I think you have to sign on to the TripleA forums before you download TripleA, but it’s all free.
(There’s also a ladder for TripleA players. Genghis Khan, who whupped me with Axis (one of few to do so), did NOT buy a G1 carrier in our game. Lots of decent players on the TripleA ladder.)
Larry Harris Tournament Rules are not yet implemented for TripleA. TripleA uses Out of the Box rules (and FAQ, I think). You can preplace bid units too.
I can’t play TripleA now . . . no internet (except at work, yeyz0rz). I’ve gotta get an internet connection set up at home (I moved Feb 1st, but I still don’t have internet!).
–BTW, I think there may be solid lines of play without spending IPCs on the G navy.
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To expand a bit on what Newpaintbrush said: the AC helps you use the navy ON THEM. Really, the G2 navy linkup in SZ 7 with a bunch of supporting fighters in france forces a cetain set of moves on the allies. If I were you I wouldn’t expect the German fleet to live forever, but just having it makes the UK/US respond defensively for a turn or two. If you get lucky, the Allies will react wrong and you can exploit something. However, the whole point (and I think the key to the Axis game) is to stay on the initiative, forcing the Allies to respond to YOUR moves. Once that table turns and you find yourself mostly in reaction mode to allied moves, your days are numbered. IMHHO.
The AC (or 3 TRN) purchase is one tactic to gain initiative.
Of course, free advice is worth what you pay for it. In recent games, I’m 3-1 with the axis, 0-4 with the allies… :-(
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