German strategy for building AC

That is correct, the A&A CD-ROM game is classic game format. Why? Do you think that would make that big of a difference?

-LT04

pretty much it would….

Squirecam

Va???

Yes, it makes a big difference.  In Revised the game is generally considered to be more balanced, while in classic the game is more unbalanced favouring the allies (possibly why you found that russia pummelled you on an all-navy buy).  Also in revised you start with 4 ships in the baltic and in classic you only start with 2.  Also in revised germany gets 40 IPC to start but in classic on 32 IPC.  Also in revised AC cost 16 IPC but in classic they cost 18 IPC.  Also in revised there are more sea zones between Eastern US and the baltic, so it takes longer for the US to bring forces to bear on it.  In Classic the US can get their much more quickly to help mop up your fledgling navy.

Plus I’m sure many other differences that may also play a role.

Wow thats a lot of diffrences.  :-o does triple A use classic format or the revised? Maybe I could find a newer copy and try it there.

-LT04

@goldenbearflyer:

I need more detail about how you play Germany, because I have trouble with it.  Caveat:  I’ve played Revised only a couple of times; my experience is mainly with the original version.  Although certain changes helped the Axis, the Allies also gained advantages here and there.  Also, I have no experience with the bid system.  (This post was intended to follow up on the “Axis and Allies first turns - Germany” thread started by newpaintbrush, but I have so many questions and I didn’t want to kidnap that thread.)

First, let’s assume R1 took Belo and W. Russia, left Karel and Arch wide open, but left big stack in W. Russia (3Inf, 1art, 4arm) and heavily fortified Caucasus (e.g. 7inf, 1art, 2F) – I based that assumption on newpaintbrush’s R1 option to attack Belo and W. Russia and used the battle simulator at http://www.dskelly.com/misc/aa/aasim.html to estimate results.  (F=fighter, art=artillery, arm=armor, inf=infantry)

Second, I’m intrigued by all the talk about G1 AC; I’ve always thought building any navy at all would doom Germany, but so many folks seem to disagree, so I guess I better try it. :wink:  So let’s start with 1AC, 8 inf for the sake of argument.

Questions:

1.  I figure I should take Karel, but from where and with how much inf?  from Norway?  with 1, 2 or 3 inf?  This is important, because…
2.  Should I reinforce Norway with 2inf from Germany, or move those 2inf to Eastern Europe.  If I reinforce it, should add fighters?  Except…
3.  Which fighters should land on AC?  from Norway and E. Europe?
4.  I assume I should take back Belo (which should have only 1inf based on the simulator), and I would do this with 2inf, 1F?
5.  After all that, the most I can leave in Ukraine is 5inf, 1art, 2arm, 1F, but Ukraine then faces a huge combined stack from W. Russia/Caucasus R2.  Do I pull 2arm back into Balkans for a counter-attack?
6.  How much to leave on W. Europe?  I would like to leave at least 3inf, 2arm, 2F, possibly 3F.
7.  I assume I take Egypt with 2inf, 2arm, 1F, so S. Europe has only 1inf to move into W. Europe or Balkans.  (Note:  the battle simulator says on average I will be left with but 1arm in Egypt, 2 if I’m lucky.  I move 1inf 1art from Algeria to Libya during NC.
8.  Where to place 8inf?  1-2 in S. Europe, 6-7 in Germany?

I really enjoy reading all your posts, everyone, and I certainly appreciate there are many good strategies and no one “best” strategy, which is why it’s a great game.  However, many of the strategies I see discussed could address these types of details in order to be more helpful to less experienced players like me.  Thanks in advance for your thoughts on the above.

1.  I advocate a very lightly held Caucasus, with Russian fighters landing in Moscow, if Russia goes for Belorussia/West Russia.

2.  Taking Karelia depends on the Russian move and purchase, and the German naval plan.  If Norway is to be secured as a fighter base to stop the Allies from securing a fleet northwest of London, then Germany should not attack Karelia heavily.  On the other hand, if Germany does not plan to keep Norway, Germany should attack Karelia with quite a bit.

2A.  German fighters should either land at Western Europe or Norway.  Splitting German fighters invites the Allies to attack an underdefended Norway to kill the German fighters.  So, if Norway is to be held, it should typically have a good fat stack of infantry plus fighters.  Of course, infantry at Norway are infantry not used to fight Russia.  It is not a light decision to hold Norway.

3.  2 inf 1 fighter is the “standard” for taking a 2 IPC territory.

4.  Fighters that land on the carrier should do so to minimize numbers of territories fighters are in.  That is to say, if you CAN put three fighters on Norway, two on the carrier, and one must land in Libya, so be it.  But it is probably not right to put one fighter in Norway, one in Western Europe, one in Balkans, two on a carrier, and one on Libya.  That invites the Allies to attack one of those territories and cheaply kill a German fighter.

5.  Trying to take Ukraine in force early with Germany is pretty risky.  You have a counterthreat of E. Europe infantry plus assorted German tanks if Russia does attack Ukraine, but, well, it really depends on the German goals.  If Germany controlled Ukraine at the beginning of G1, Germany can POSSIBLY abandon the Atlantic early to land fighters at Ukraine, but that is very costly, as Ukraine fighters don’t threaten Algeria as Western Europe fighters would.  Nevertheless, it’s an option that Germany can consider.

6.  Generally, you want two units in Southern Europe available for transport to Africa on G1, G2, and G3; the transport is changed to Ukraine/Caucasus on G4+ (BUT that can change depending on the Allied play).  You do NOT want to produce lots of units in Southern Europe.  The ONLY things that should be produced in Southern Europe are units to be transported to Africa AND units that are planned to be moved to W. Europe on the next turn.

Rationale - if you march from Germany to Eastern Europe, you can then go to Ukraine, Belorussia, or Karelia.  But if you go from Southern Europe to Balkans, only Belorussia and Ukraine are available.  Thus, producing infantry at Germany offers greater tactical flexibility on the third turn after production.

@losttribe04:

Wow thats a lot of diffrences.  :-o does triple A use classic format or the revised? Maybe I could find a newer copy and try it there.

-LT04

1. Triple A has both classic and revised

2. BUY the board game. Larry needs to eat too….

Squirecam

I got both board games smart a**, just when I run through a new strategy I puch it in the PC game first to see if I should use it later or not.

-LT04

Oh. maybe we figured you didn’t own revised because you didn’t seem to know the differences between the two of them  :?

Well I haven’t had revised long, still learning the initial set up.

-LT04

@losttribe04:

Well I haven’t had revised long, still learning the initial set up.

-LT04

Let me help you out a bit.  You can not use the classic CD rom to test Revised strategies.

There are map programs (or triple A) for Revised is you wanted to do simulations.  Download battlemap and look at the Play by forum area (http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?board=40.0) to look at some existing games in progress/previously played.  You should be able to gleen some pretty standard opening strategies at work there (for both sides)

BTW, I wouldn’t put any stock in the Classic CD-rom AI.  Only true newbies would lose to that.

I have lost to the AI once.  I was the Axis, and I made russian infantry cost only 2IPCs, British fighters attack at 4 and transports that travel 3, and US all US ships cost 2-4 IPCs less, and tanks only cost 4.  And i lost then….

When I use the CD-ROM I don’t use the computer AI. I play all five players set up the scenario described then try like hell to destroy the strategy. It gives me a working knowledge of what could possibly happen. Like for this topic when it was Germany’s turn I had all the Air units kill off all the UK Navy (besides the TRN by India) so when it came to UK’s turn all I had was 2 FTR’s and one bomber on England that was all I needed to take Germany’s navy out of the water. But like you said a lot of key differences between the two. By the way my triple A is classic, where could I get a link to the revised copy?

-LT04

Your tripleA should have revised in it too.  Just start a new game and select the revised board before starting the game.

Mine doesn’t have that option I can choose to add ART and DST’s but they stay with the classic map. It says classic in the upper Left hand corner but I can’t change it its text not a button. Is it b/c I have version 1.5?

-LT04

Instead of “Start A New Game” at the beginning, choose “Load A Game”.  You’ll get the option to load a wide variey of different map types/play styles including Revised.

~Josh

Out side lime,

Thanks for the tip, I’ll give it a try. I didn’t think to look there, don’t know why it would be there, but like I sad didn’t think to look there.

-LT04

Hey I was looking at the optional rules and one of them was to be able to place FTR’s on newly bought CV’s. I like the Idea you can do that in some cases I wouldn’t buy a CV b/c no support around it but if I could put 2 FTR’s on that would change my mind some of the time. I just don’t think its realistic at the end of the turn when you place your units I imagine the CV just being launched from dry dock and the FTR’s rolling off the assembly line. Just think of the stress on the CV already being loaded with air craft before launching, so I don’t think I would ever use the rule b/c of that what do you guys gals think?

-LT04

I believe this is a standard rule in LHTR 1.3 (which is the ruleset that is most common on this board).  Is it only an optional rule in OOB?

@losttribe04:

Out side lime,

Thanks for the tip, I’ll give it a try. I didn’t think to look there, don’t know why it would be there, but like I sad didn’t think to look there.

-LT04

Took me a while to figure it out myself.  :-D

~Josh