You know what’s great about the holiday season in America? Peoples from all races, religions, nationalities, sexual orientations, social strata and wealth classes come together in harmony to sing praises to the Lord, the Messiah.
:)
Told you it would piss you all off. hehe.
I’m not pissed off. The Holidays are great because it brings people together, even if you aren’t of the same race, creed, economic class, etc. Sure Christmas is exploited by just about every corporation in the world. Sure Christmas isn’t really Jesus Christ’s birthday. Sure Christmas started off as a Roman pagan celebration for the sun. But it does bring people together, and people that are usually assholes to you the rest of the year, tone down their asshole like behavior just for the holidays, and I think thats what really counts.
You know what’s great about the holiday season in America? Peoples from all races, religions, nationalities, sexual orientations, social strata and wealth classes come together in harmony to sing praises to the Lord, the Messiah.
There’s a flaw in your statement.
and people that are usually assholes to you the rest of the year, tone down their a**hole like behavior just for the holidays, and I think thats what really counts.
You don’t go to malls between Thanksgiving and New Years do you? LOL
Sure Christmas started off as a Roman pagan celebration for the sun.
Actually it is FAR older than that (though of course it was not called Christmas). Celebration of the Winter Solstice goes back at least as long as recorded history, and there are strong indications that it pre-dates civilization by a few tens of thousands of years.
Of course, Christmas is SUPPOSED to be on the Winter Solstice, but as the Julian Calender got fracked, and then when Pope Greogory fixed it by adding Leap Year (among other things) he failed to re-set the Christmas Celebration to closer to the date of the Solstice (as it was originally set). So, we Pagans get to actually KEEP that holiday :-)
And of course the fact that Yeshuah of Nazareth was actually born in late spring… But at least the Christians have not co-opted Beltain (which would ahve happened has the Catholic Church picked an arbitrary date near the actual date of birth)
@ncscswitch:
Sure Christmas started off as a Roman pagan celebration for the sun.
Actually it is FAR older than that (though of course it was not called Christmas). Celebration of the Winter Solstice goes back at least as long as recorded history, and there are strong indications that it pre-dates civilization by a few tens of thousands of years.
Of course, Christmas is SUPPOSED to be on the Winter Solstice, but as the Julian Calender got fracked, and then when Pope Greogory fixed it by adding Leap Year (among other things) he failed to re-set the Christmas Celebration to closer to the date of the Solstice (as it was originally set). So, we Pagans get to actually KEEP that holiday :-)
And of course the fact that Yeshuah of Nazareth was actually born in late spring… But at least the Christians have not co-opted Beltain (which would ahve happened has the Catholic Church picked an arbitrary date near the actual date of birth)
That I did not know. Thanks for the info Switch. You learn something new everyday. :wink:
I always pictured Christ being born in summer when it was warm out and thus when the shepards would actually be out sleeping with their flocks in the fields.
There are actually stements in the Bible about lambs (forget the exact thing to do with them), but whatever it is it occurs in mid to late April. I think that comes from Luke.
However there is ANOTHER school of thought that uses other phrases in Luke to place Christ’s birth in September using inferences on the Census that was occuring (and the reaon for Mary and Joseph to be on the road at all)
@ncscswitch:
However there is ANOTHER school of thought that uses other phrases in Luke to place Christ’s birth in September using inferences on the Census that was occuring (and the reaon for Mary and Joseph to be on the road at all)
Several people I know beleive that Jesus’s birthday is something during September/October. I tend to agree with that.
“If I could work my will any man who went about with ‘Merry Christmas’ on his lips should be boiled in his own pudding and buried…with a stake of holly through his heart.” -Ebenezer Scrooge 8-)
My real problem with this time of year is that people are nicer to everyone (except harried store clerks and postal employess perhaps) and for a large part don’t think they can be like that the greater portion of the time.
Christmas itself may not be the exact date Christ was born, sure. But then, since that date is unknown, might as well pick some day for it; December 25th is, as far as I’m concerned, the birthday celebration of Jesus the Christ, and whether or not the Winter Solstice was there first really doesn’t bother me at all :P.
The thing with most Christian holidays is that they are simply efforts by the Catholic Church to assume control over existing celebrations.
The most glaring example is of course All Saints Day created specifically as an attempt to hijack Samhain (pronounced SOW-en)
Christmas of course being placed on December 25, which used to be the Winter Solstice
Easter is a rather fun one. The most Pagan “placed” of all Christian holidays since it occurs on “The first Sunday after the first full moon of Spring” What exactly does a full move have to do with the alleged date of the Crucifixion? Anyway, that one is of course in the Ostara time frame.
Then there are other minor attempts…
Groundhog Day, May Day…
Much of the dogma that most Fundamentalist hold near and dear to their heart is actually a sad testament to the early Catholic Church’s attempt to assume control over people’s lives. So much of early Christianity is simply cobbled together from previous myth cycles. And the most glaring example of that has to be the most fundamental aspect of Christianity… the resurrection of Christ, which is ripped almost word for word, act for act, from the earlier Zoroastrian myths (go ahead, read about the 3 days in a cave before being resurrected from a religion that existed in the area of modern Israel and Syria and dates from about 400 years before the birth of Yeshua of Nazareth).
Now THAT should piss off a number of folks… the more so as they do a little research and find it to be true…
Yeah, Merry Christmas to yall too.
I think Jesus was born on June 13th. Not for any particular reason, I would just like to get a day off work around that time. Besides, it’s as good as anyone elses guess…
it doesn’t seem like anybodys pissed off. switch thanks for the info, you can learn alot here. i’m not religious at all but i enjoy getting together with family. hey dezrtfish what did you have to do to be # 51 on jenns list. i’d like to see that list am i on it?
it doesn’t seem like anybodys pissed off. switch thanks for the info, you can learn alot here. i’m not religious at all but i enjoy getting together with family. hey dezrtfish what did you have to do to be # 51 on jenns list. i’d like to see that list am i on it?
What list?
And the Catholic Church did arrange for many feasts to land on pagan holidays and incorporate christianified pagan symbols. It was easier to convert the locals that way. Besides, it’s amazing, but most of the feasts in common usage world wide land in the same times frames…just after harvest, just before winter kicks into high gear. So from an anthropological stance it only makes sense to keep the same feast times (Harvest/Thanksgiving/Easter/Spring, etc) because they are placed there for both convenience and logical reasons.
BTW, AFAIK, if the conversion of heathenous holidays saved but one soul, it was worth it.
I should probably drop it, I seem to be the only one who thought it was funny. My real name is #51 on the list Jen made in this Post:
William Cook? Or did I miscount?
That would be me 8-)
