New Axis & Allies Global War Variant (free map)

I have used Harrison’s information for a long time.

I see that 50% of england’s income came from her colonies so it can be reasoned that 50% of the total income should be represented in convoy boxes that can be attacked by axis. Of course this has got to be balanced for the game.

Japan is in a similar position.

a basic rule is to count all the detached territory’s with IPC value and that becomes the basis for CB. That would be a self correcting measure for the variant.

UK’s income is all of her colonies around the world put together. So in Retrospect England has to control literally Half of the world to be at the same level as the US. If you look at the map they do control half of the world in total Square miles under 1 Flag.

The US achieves this total because that’s the way it was.

For England to be a playable country in this game they need a large starting income. England will find themselves short of cash real fast and out of the game.

As for Germany’s 54 IPC’s, don’t forget Italy’s additional 25. Italy is a new country to this game and they took over what used to be German Territories in past games. So GE income before I adjusted it was set at 74(Italy included) Italy also has the opportunity to make alot of cash fast if they sweep through Afrika and let the Germans Concentrate on the European and Russian fronts. Italy can realistically reach the 35-45 IPC range easily.

The allies did have a vast production rate over the Axis. The Axis start the game out Military power houses. LOTS of units.
As for the economies of Australia and India It wasn’t there per capita  but there Natural Resources that boost the UK economy. Don’t forget about all that middle Eastern Oil they control also. :)

DB- As for my total for the US, Adjust what ever territories you find appropriate to reach a US IPC level of 75 plus China’s 10 for a total of 85.

Quick question: does the map posted on 15 June include the most up-to-date numbers for IPC values? I’m probably going to start putting the numbers on my hand-drawn 1940 map this weekend, and since it’s based on this map I’d like to have the best possible starting point for those values.

Thanks!
-M8B

LMFAO!!! I love the fact that basically everybody is making maps… hundreds of them… you join this site and somehow you end up making maps… people show up and are making maps…a guy just joins and starts making maps… lol what the heck! :mrgreen:

@Imperious:

LMFAO!!! I love the fact that basically everybody is making maps… hundreds of them… you join this site and somehow you end up making maps… people show up and are making maps…a guy just joins and starts making maps… lol what the heck! :mrgreen:

In my case it was my making a map that brought me here. :lol:

One of the reasons I joined these forums was to see peoples ideas for maps, since me and my friends are looking to either make a Market Garden game (similar to axis and allies) or a NATO/Warsaw Pact (hex based) game.  Im also kind of interested in the Suez Crisis and what it would have led to if the US hadnt intervened, but Russian intervention in that situation feels like it wouldve caused problems in europe too, but I guess the Suez game could be made while still assuming a war happens in Europe off of the map.

Okay im sidetracking now.  :-P

we should rename this place:

Axis and Allies Map design.org

Most definitely.

While we’re on the topic of game design, does anybody know of a place that would make cardboard counters?

Also, how would one go about making a hex map or getting a sort of hex overlay?

@Deaths:

UK’s income is all of her colonies around the world put together. So in Retrospect England has to control literally Half of the world to be at the same level as the US. If you look at the map they do control half of the world in total Square miles under 1 Flag.
The US achieves this total because that’s the way it was. 
For England to be a playable country in this game they need a large starting income. England will find themselves short of cash real fast and out of the game.
As for Germany’s 54 IPC’s, don’t forget Italy’s additional 25. Italy is a new country to this game and they took over what used to be German Territories in past games. So GE income before I adjusted it was set at 74(Italy included) Italy also has the opportunity to make alot of cash fast if they sweep through Afrika and let the Germans Concentrate on the European and Russian fronts. Italy can realistically reach the 35-45 IPC range easily.
The allies did have a vast production rate over the Axis. The Axis start the game out Military power houses. LOTS of units.
As for the economies of Australia and India It wasn’t there per capita  but there Natural Resources that boost the UK economy. Don’t forget about all that middle Eastern Oil they control also. :)
DB- As for my total for the US, Adjust what ever territories you find appropriate to reach a US IPC level of 75 plus China’s 10 for a total of 85.

Since when does square mileage equal production?  Africa is bigger than Europe, and the UK controlled the majority of colonies there, yet that continent is worth only a fraction of Europe?  Heck, South America is close to Africa in IPCs. 
The US acheived it’s total is because of it’s large production abilities, that’s the way it was.

I beg to differ on what makes the UK playable in this game.  In my recollection, there is not one, (1) A/A game where the UK has the largest production of any nation.  And yet they seem to be playable in each and every version of the game.  The problem that the UK has in the world conflict games is that it must choose how to place forces in each theatre, if at all. They don’t get to have their cake and eat it too.  Even the US doesn’t get the material ability to fight a full scale war in each front, or for that matter not even Germany–if they did, we’d likely be speaking German.

Oh yeah, don’t forget Italy, and those vast stacks of 25 IPCs, which as you pointed out, still is less than the UK…?  Again, how can that work historically or balance wise?  I think you want too much from the UK.  This is a country that in 41 was getting slobbernockered  by Germany and was not the war machine that you want them to be here.  And how does one sweep through Africa?  It takes about 6 turns to get across it, taking 1-2 ipcs a turn, so the UK has what, 75, 73, 71, 69, 67 (oh hey, and here comes the overwhelming landings of the Americans into Normandy, if the british don’t get there by round 3).  10 ipcs from the UK to Italy in Africa does not give them the chance you seem to be thinking.  Right, right, right, the UK would have less if attacked from different places at the same time, but If I was the UK and had 75, 70, 60 ipcs for the first three turns, I am landing in Western Europe and with Russia banging through Poland, I don’t care about Africa.

Austraila announced in Dec. '41 that they looked to America for their hope and India didn’t even declare their support for the UK’s war until the end of the year.
  The natural resources of India and Austraila are nice and all, but did they have the people and the transport lanes to move enough to reach 75 in this game?  No, if that were the case Africa would be worth more than anything.  There are more natural resources untouched there than anywhere else in the world.

Regarding the natural resources of India:
With the massive demands of manpower for the British Indian Army fighting in European, African and Burmese theaters of war there was a shortage of able bodied men for agriculture. Further military restrictions (The British were afraid Bengali plains might fall into Japanese hands and prevented cultivation of border areas and also moved all rice stocks back towards Calcutta) as well as forced procurement of rice for the war effort in Europe led to sever food shortages culminating in the Bengal famine in 1942 in which an estimated 3 million to 7 million Indians are said to have perished. At the time this famine was considered as bad an atrocity as the Germans starvation of the Polish Jews and was in purely numerical terms a much larger catastrophe. It has been found that a number of images found in holocaust museums around the world as pictures of people starved to the bone are actually mislabeled photographs of Bengali civilians under British rule. In recent years the famine has been explained as a combination of a natural drought as well as the military restrictions but reliable records of whether there was any natural element to the famine are not be found.
With the British recruiting Indian soldiers in large numbers as well as the Japanese recruiting Indian expatriates into the Indian National Army (INA) a state of civil war existed on the east Indian border with Indians killing Indians. This in turn led to civilians who supported either the British or the INA rioting against each other.
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_front_during_World_War_II  and several books cited below above paragraph for sources.

you can also look at this page (mentioned previous post from Mark Harrion’s book) about production of munitions and fighting equipment, but I’ll post the real meat here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

Artillery Production:
United States = 257,390
Germany = 159,147
United Kingdom = 124,877
Canada = 10,552
Other Commonwealth = 5,215

Mortars (over 60 mm)
United States = 105,050
United Kingdom = 102,950
Germany = 73,484
Commonwealth = 46,014

Machineguns
United States = 2,679,840
Germany = 674,280
United Kingdom = 297,336
Canada = 251,925
Other Commonwealth = 37,983

Military Aircraft
United States = 324,750
Germany = 189,307
United Kingdom = 131,549
Canada = 16,431
Other Commonwealth = 3,081

Coal-millions of metric tons
Germany = 2,420.3
United States = 2,149.7
United Kingdom = 1,441.2
Canada = 101.9

Iron Ore
United States = 396.9
Germany = 240.7
United Kingdom = 119.3
Canada = 3.6

Crude Oil
United States = 833.2
United Kingdom = 90.8
Germany = 33.4 (including 23.4 synthetic)
Canada = 8.4

Note, Commonwealth would include India and Austraila, so unless that smaller amount of people had some incredible work ethic to produce, they just did not make that much.  And those figures do not include Italy, nor Romania, Poland or Hungary for Germany.

die cut counters can be expensive. best to buy a blank sheet from ebay or something and find some decals that are square and get to work. You will bit find a press cut sheet of .5x.5 counters or even .75x.75  i have tried looking… you will need to buy a die cut and give to printer to make them.

@Imperious:

die cut counters can be expensive. best to buy a blank sheet from ebay or something and find some decals that are square and get to work. You will bit find a press cut sheet of .5x.5 counters or even .75x.75  i have tried looking… you will need to buy a die cut and give to printer to make them.

Ack, weak, well the units I ahve in mind would work fine with Axis and Allies pieces (even though I might buy more modern warfare items off of ebay).  Counters though, in my opinion, just looks better, and more militaristic, if you feel what im saying.

best to use wooden tokens 1 inch square and buy 8.5x11 decal sheets and cut units from sheet and stick to wooden blocks.

sigh Well then think of it like this. The 75 IPC’s also includes the trade the UK was getting from the US that’s not represented in the original game. But how is it actually represented on the board. In the spaces worth something but shouldn’t be.

Play a game on the map, even at 75 IPC’s UK can’t do a whole lot but try to hang on.  If it is lowered I wouldn’t suggest going lower then 65.
Or India is 15 IPC’s and Australia gets 18 IPCS the same way as Pacific (if I remember correctly)  and the the UK could collect what ever the total is in Europe edition. Then from those totals you have UK’s income. Do we throw in the extra IPC’s from the middle east as in Europe.

This would make sense if we planned on using the previous set up charts since they pretty much mimic AAE+AAP

Thoughts?

HISTORICALLY CORRECT IPC INCOME OF THE GREAT POWERS 1938 (in GDP and international dollars)

ALLIED POWERS

USA 800
US Colonies 26 (Philipphines)
US trading bloc 250 (Central and South America )

UK 284
UK Dominions 115 (Australia, Canada, New Zealand & South Africa)
UK Colonies 233 (India, Burma, Borneo, Hong Kong, Malaya)
UK Controlled 52 (Anglo-Egypt, Iraq & Iran)

France 186
French Colonies 50 (French Indo-China, Algeria &  French West Africa)

USSR 360

China (exc Manch) 320

AXIS POWERS

Germany 350
Austria 24

Italy 140
Italian Colonies 2 (Libya)

Axis trading bloc
Switz 26
Sweden 30
Spain 52
Portugal 12
Portuguese Colonies 8 (Angola, Mozambiqe)
Turkey 23

Japan 170
Japanese Colonies 62 (Korea, Manchuria & Formosa)
Siam 12

1938 NEUTRAL MINORS

Czecho 30
Poland 76
Denmark 20
Nether/Belgium 90
Dutch Colonies 78 (Indonesia)
Norway 11
Finland 12
Baltic 12
Greece 20
Hungary 24
Bulgaria 10
Yugoslavia 22
Romania 20

The map should have this historical correct values

The problem of making a game like this is that the military burden was changing all the time

The military burden 1939 -1944, in per cent of national income:
Powers…1939…1940…1941…1942…1943…1944
USA…1 %…2%…11%…31%…42%…42%
UK…15%…44%…53%…52%…55%…53%
USSR…-…17%…28%…61%…61%…53%

Germany…23%…40%…52%…64%…70%
Italy…8%…12%…23%…22%…21%
Japan…22%…22%…27%…33%…43%…76%

The game World in Flames by Australian Design Group tryed to copy this in a very complicated system, that togheter with a US entry chart and political action charts determined how many % you could multiplie your IPC income with

In 1939 the Anglo-French alliance system comprised 700 million people and 48 million square kilometres
against Germany, Italy and Japans system with 260 million people and 6 million square kilometres

Before 1942, USA, China and USSR joined the allies with 712 million people ( China 412, USSR 170, USA 130)
compared to the Axis gain of 28 million people from Finland, Romania & Hungary.

Comparison 1942

Allies (UK, USA, USSR & China) > Axis (Germany, Italy & Japan)

Population Allied 2>1 Axis
Territory Allied 7>1 Axis
Income Allied 1.3 >1 Axis

The values from A&A MB 2 ed is closest to historical reallity

Eagle:

Its great to see you in these forums. I hope you post often. Thanks to you i have Harrisons book and use it very well.

check out AARHE when you get a chance

@deepblue:

DH,

Issue!  There are no current territories that have 10 IPCs.

I could create one but it most likely won’t match.

I will try a few things and let you know.  In the mean time you might want to reevaluate anything above an 8.

Also,

I have looked at your US numbers and they don’t add up. 
Are you aware that currently the US CBs add up to 23 not 15?

The original Convoy boxes add up to 18 not 22, I was wrong with 15 myself.

@Deaths:

sigh Well then think of it like this. The 75 IPC’s also includes the trade the UK was getting from the US that’s not represented in the original game. But how is it actually represented on the board. In the spaces worth something but shouldn’t be.
Play a game on the map, even at 75 IPC’s UK can’t do a whole lot but try to hang on.  If it is lowered I wouldn’t suggest going lower then 65.
This would make sense if we planned on using the previous set up charts since they pretty much mimic AAE+AAP

If the 75 for the UK is the money/income/production from trade and lend lease from the US, then shouldn’t the US total go down?  And didn’t Deepblue say he was going to put in lend lease rules for this version?  If so, then looking at the 75 for UK would be double dipping their trade income.

Totalling the AAE and AAP boards is a nice thought, seems simple enough except that in order to give the UK it’s totals in those games the totals of each independently includes income from territories that are NOT on the board.  Example-income on the AAP board includes supplies/ipcs from Europe and Africa.  This would be the same for the reverse of AAE having income coming from the Pacific.  To add them together gives you a inaccurate total.

Even Aldertag’s numbers paint a very different view of the UK income and go along with the Harrison numbers I posted previously.   It would make more sense to give the US 100 and make them wait a turn to build then to give the UK more than Germany.

By the way, Aldertag, where did your info come from?  book, web?  nice percentage chart.

Eagle days numbers are from Harrison. He has the book too.

Yes, I sure got the book.