New Axis & Allies Global War Variant (free map)

Can you relocate Paris so its not so near the coast?

But but now a UK Bomber need a movement of 10 spaces to SBR Berlin  :-(

@deepblue:

Berlin Version 2

Berlin v2 looks very interesting indeed!

It’s Friday !!

But… Not much has changed with the map so I will not be posting a draft this week.

I will be starting the IPC discussion. (post to follow)

Have a great Weekend.

deepblue

Industrial Production Certificates (IPCs)

I would like to paint the big picture of how I think IPCs should be divided.

There is one word I would like each of you to keep in mind when posting your suggestions “BALANCE”.  IPCs must be balanced giving each side a fair shot at winning.

The best way IMO to get balance without excessive game testing is to leverage the work already done by Larry Harris and AH.  The AA Revised does a good job of balancing the economic struggle between the powers.

| A&A REVISED |
| | IPCs | % of World Total |
| US | 42 | 25% |
| UK | 30 | 18% |
| SU | 24 | 14% |
| Allied Total | 96 | 58% |
| |
| GER | 40 | 24% |
| JAP | 30 | 18% |
| Axis Total | 70 | 42% |
| |
| Total Diff | 16% |
| World Total IPCs | 166 |

Our world is bigger that is a fact.  So it should produce more IPCs.

Our first decision is to determine how many IPCs our new world produces.

I am sure there is more than one way to figure this and I can’t wait to see what the group comes up with.

Here is my idea.
AAR map has 56 IPC producing territories.
Our map has 130.  That is more than double.  So we could double the world’s output to 332.  That puts US at 84 a turn and Russia at 46 a turn.  I think that is a bit too high.
So why not 300 (I like round numbers), that puts US at 76 a turn and Russia at 42 a turn.

So let’s start with 300.

In theory we could just plug-in 300 and using Larry’s percentages get our new national totals.  Just one catch, Italy.  By adding Italy we now need to account for it.

So we need to decide what percentage Italy should produce and from who we should take it from.  The primary source of Italy’s income should come from Germany.  But to make Italy truly playable we may need to move around some of the global income.

I don’t have a book on the subject nor have I found a good web site to reference.  So I went with what I know.  I have played several other games that have Italy as a player nation and the majority of these games have Italy producing about 1/3 of Germany’s production.

So after some financial wrangling and massaging I came up with this.

| PROPOSED |
| | IPCs | % of World Total |
| US | 72 | 24% |
| UK | 51 | 17% |
| SU | 39 | 13% |
| Allied Total | 162 | 54% |
| |
| GER | 63 | 21% |
| JAP | 51 | 17% |
| ITA | 24 | 8% |
| Axis Total | 138 | 46% |
| |
| Total Diff | 8% |
| World Total IPCs | 300 |

This keeps the majority of Larry’s percentages almost intact.  The exception “Total Difference” has been cut in half (I just don’t see any way around that).  I tried to balance several factors Total % in difference of sides, Total % of each side, the relations each nation had with one another, total world wealth, etc.

Other things to keep in mind:

Average Piece Count on the board at any given time.  We don’t want this to get too out of hand, requiring hundreds of pieces to play.  (Need to keep World Production reasonable)

IPCs and Convoy Boxes
You might have noticed I have not mentioned Convoy Boxes.  This is because I don’t think convoy boxes should produce IPCs.  That seems to be double dipping in my option.  Convoys don’t produce IPCs they are transfer points that are vulnerable to attack.  And that is how they should work.

Lend Lease
I plan on using Lend Lease rules for this map.  (Rules to follow at a later date)

Let me know what you think.  I am looking for constructive discussions.

If you think you have a better idea or can improve on this one (I’m sure it can use improvement),  Please share it.

deepblue

PROPOSED
IPCs % of World Total
US
72 24%
UK
51 17%
SU
39 13%
Allied Total
162 54%
GER
63 21%
JAP
51 17%
ITA
24 8%
Axis Total
138 46%
Total Diff
8%
World Total IPCs
300

The cost of units will have to go up if you do this otherwise you will have a piece density issue and it will bog down the game. If you factor your 300 figure, then by the same % of growth the units need to increase per unit or you will get huge quantity of pieces and turns will get really long, due to moving more and rolling out more combat.

other tricks can be used… example: players cannot spend more than 50% of their income on infantry…

Also, can you relocate Paris further south?

You may not need to increase prices too much.  Rather than just consider “more units”, perhaps “units per map space” is more appropriate.  I’ve played other A&A variants with larger maps and higher incomes.  You need more units to cover the larger map.  It might be entirely appropriate to keep the prices the same and allow for larger number of units purchased.

I do not plan on changing the cost of the units.

So…  We need to decide what the total world production is going to be while keeping the piece count reasonable but allowing adequate forces to defend territory and to launch offensive operations on a larger map.

I have broken down the income each nation will receive in addition to what they earn in AA Revised.  I have also listed the number of each type of unit a nation could produce per turn in addition to their original AA Revised production.

I have global figures for a 300, 280 and 250 IPC world.

Example of how to read the charts:

On the world income table for 280. (Center table)
We set the Total Global Income to 280.

The Soviet Union will get an additional 12 IPCs to build 4 more infantry or 2 & 1/2 more tanks or 1 fighter, etc.

Japan will get an additional 18 IPCs to build 4 more artillery or 1 bomber or 2 transports, etc.

All figures are “Per Turn”.

Review the tables and let me know which option you like best.

(Tables are in the image below)

[attachment deleted by admin]

I prefer 250 without a doubt. The others will extend the game too much. More to move, more to destroy, more to count, more to look at…

Can you relocate Paris further south?

I can perform 4 play tests from June 19 Through July 10 and post the results here assuming the game is in a playable state.  I play with a group of 4 guys on Tuesdays, and it is my turn to choose games during those dates.

I think 250 might be a good starting point for income.  This map is very approximatly the same size as TripleA’s “Big World 1942” (BW42).  That map has a total income of 232, so the suggestion of 250 might be a good starting point.  The starting incomes in BW42 are Russians 34, Germans 60, British 40, Japanese 38, Americans 50, Chinese 10.  If you would like to see a map of BW42, I put it on my web site here: http://www.craig-bartell.com/images/bw42.gif

Oh, and for the love of all that is good, please relocate Paris so Imperious Leader can focus on the game and not small yellow Paris graphic ;)

Craig

I have play tested on the original map extensively and I have found that Positronica’s Total IPC production for each country at the begining was very good and balanced.

USA 85 IPC
UK 75 IPC
USSR 44 IPC
Total=204 IPC

Germany 50 IPC
Italy 24 IPC
Japan 40 IPC
total= 114 IPC’s

Since most of the territories fought over in the first few turns belong to UK, they will be down to around 50-60 IPC’s quickly
UK also has to build for Australia, India and the home Islands, so your UK starting Income is way Low at 51. If you start them at that, UK will be making 30 IPC’s by turn 3. To little too fast.

my 2 cents

@Deaths:

I have play tested on the original map extensively and I have found that Positronica’s Total IPC production for each country at the begining was very good and balanced.

USA 85 IPC
UK 75 IPC
USSR 44 IPC
Total=204 IPC

Germany 50 IPC
Italy 24 IPC
Japan 40 IPC
total= 114 IPC’s

Since most of the territories fought over in the first few turns belong to UK, they will be down to around 50-60 IPC’s quickly
UK also has to build for Australia, India and the home Islands, so your UK starting Income is way Low at 51. If you start them at that, UK will be making 30 IPC’s by turn 3. To little too fast.

my 2 cents

Death’s Head: How had the map changed since you play tested, and how do you think those changes will effect play?

Most of the changes they have made so far are cosmetic changes, and therefore No big deal. Some territories may now find them selves 1-2 IPC’s lower or Higher to achieve the already established totals

I’m sure when this map is finished and printed on my table, I will still take a Sharpie or other majik marker and adjust the map to my liking.

So where did everyone go?

Due to lack of progress this week I will not be posting a draft.

I am a little surprised by the lack of input from the group on such an important topic as IPCs.  IPCs are a major issue but I have only received feedback from 3 people.  I can only assume that the rest of you have been too busy this week to write.  Hopefully this weekend we will see some more activity from the group.

See you next week
deepblue

So did you relocate Paris yet?

@CraigBee:

Oh, and for the love of all that is good, please relocate Paris so Imperious Leader can focus on the game and not small yellow Paris graphic ;)

I could not have said it better myself  :roll:

It’s been since October 1st since this project started, We should have been done at least 2 months ago. We as a group keep going off topic with mundane Priorities(yellowdots) and new rules(oil). I think we should focus on the task on hand, which is the IPC’s. thats the last step in producing a piece of quality work. Lets get it done and start rolloing dice.  :lol:  :-P  :evil:

I really need to pick up Photo shop. This seems to be dead in the water because it is taking way to long to produce, there fore people are losing interest.
I have also noticed that when we, the people, submit Ideas to this project, if the person creating the map at present, doesn’t like the Idea, it gets ignored. Don’t get me wrong I appreciate his time, but sometimes I feel it is not in the best interest of the group and the game.

I have Big plans for this map and have invested heavily into WaS and AAM mini’s for use as playing pieces on a 4x8 version of this map.
The possibilities are endless here.
So please use every one’s 2 cents for what it’s worth, and if it is a worth while idea, use it. Just cause you don’t like it or agree with it does not make it wrong or bad.

Thank You.
DH

Patience Deaths Head 420. This map is moving along rather quickly when you consider that Deepblue is doing this in his free time. I like the fact that there is debate about what should be put in and what shouldn’t. This way we don’t wind up with a finished map that everybody complains about needing to be fixed. I downloaded and printed out Postronica’s first map, it is a great map I wish I had waited for this current version to be done.

krazygit

I like the debate also, This map has been under construction for 9 months.  It seems to me the the enthusiasm is just not there as it was 7 months ago or even 4 months ago.
All I am saying is people are losing interest and that is why less input is being put in to it. Most folks are sitting on the sideline waiting and not helping.

By the end of this week the 15th of june 07 i will post a detailed IPC Count and distribution list. Then we will see where it goes.
Till friday, or sooner. :-o :-D

DH

I too am not too pleased as the structure of discussion is not as open as it should be. Some posts never get addressed nor replied too, while others receive a lengthy discourse but conclude an apologetic ‘Nay’ in the end. Basically its great that such a project is being made, but they asked us for input and none or close to none of our input sees the light of day resulting in many posts: ….“I guess theirs no comments ( except for a few which we will not address)… so we will also stop working until others (besides  those same frequent posters) can provide input.”