AARHE: Rule files

So will players have to write down how many attacking units are coming from which territory in case they decide to retreat? How else will the attacker remember how many units came from which territories?

Attacks will be conducted by leaving the attacking units in their original territories and moving them in only if the defender has lost. Their is no physical need to “push” the plastic in … its not no limit poker

This “retreat to spaces with unresolved combat” is problematic.
This is for both land and naval combat.

The solution must be universal and easy. The just die thing can be rigged in such a way to kill too many units for nothing.

If pieces remain in combat territories from where they came from and the defender cant retreat because all possible retreats are blocked by various combats, then they should be forced to fight to the death, or held in limbo until all other combats are resolved and only then can retreat or face additional combats.

example: Soviets trapped due to blocked retreat.  1) resolve other combats and retreats first 2) if still no retreat is possible then its a fight to the death.

Thats simple and realistic. This can work for both land and naval.

Naval retreats: must be among the closest route toward your home nation in terms of spaces available.

The solution must be universal and easy. The just die thing can be rigged in such a way to kill too many units for nothing.

I’d like to point out that “many units can be killed for nothing” only when the defender chooses to retreat there. I would look at the combat in the territory I’m retreated into, and only choose to retreat there if there was only <5% chance I’d lose that battle. If I then lose that battle by some miracle, then I knew my odds and took that chance. The moral of this example is that “many units are killed” only if the defender accepts the risk. The defender knows what he’s doing, let him choose. And why is the defender force sandwiched between the 2 enemy forces an unrealistic annihilation anyway? I like the rule… simple and justifiably realistic IMO.

Ok rewrite the exact wording on this so the idea is clear in: 1) cases where a retreat is blocked and the defender loses the battle and 2) cases where a retreat is blocked and the defender wins the battle. Please use an example for each case using territories on the map. I am not sure exactly what the proposed rule is.

Here’s an example of what I’m talking about… let’s say Russia has a large force in Karelia, a small force in West Russia and controls Archangel with a negligible force. Let’s say Germany has a large force in Eastern Europe, a small force in both Belorussia and Ukraine. It’s Germany’s turn, and Germany decides to send in the large E. Europe and small Belorussian armies to attack Karelia. Also, Germany decides to send in the small Ukraine force to attack West Russia. Germany decides to conduct the Karelia battle first. The Russian player decided to retreat from Karelia first chance he gets. He can retreat to Archangel without any risk, but a retreat to West Russia would allow him to attack Ukraine next turn and surprise the Germans and thus be a better retreat option. Russia is now at a strategic dilemma… should he do the safe retreat into Archangel (where there’s no unresolved combat) or the riskier but better positioned retreat to West Russia? Well, the Russian player needs to weigh the odds of losing the West Russia battle. Even though it’s not likely the Ukraine force will deafeat the West Russian defending force, if he happens to lose the West Russia battle and decided to retreat the Karelia army there, then the large force coming down from Karelia will be sandwiched in and killed off. This would give him a large loss, but still at an unlikely outcome (because the attacking Ukraine army is so small compared to the West Russia army).

The type of thinking that the Russian player is doing is the type of strategic thinking that I would like to introduce to the game. I think the game needs more strategic thinking in that respect. Not only is the Russian player doing more strategic thinking, but the German player made a nice move to put the Russian player in this difficult spot. The German player didn’t need to attack West Russia with such a weaker force, but he did it just to put Russia in this tough position. This is added strategic maneuvering on both player’s parts, IMO.Â

I need time to sort this… but i will…

why are poeple so opposed to this “instant killing of retreats” idea? It’s not that big a thing that will hardly ever come up, it really simplifies the game a lot, and if it does come up I think it invokes some intersting stategy to the game and is not that unrealistic anyway.

Ok i also think its not a big deal, plus the defender can just fight on and die like Romans. No complaints here. Tekky just add it to the draft.

ok I’ve put it in

now

1. what about attacker? why and why not

2. what about naval combat? why and why not

3. need example of “sandwiched” in WWII for iltalics in draft

1. I don’t know what specifically about the attacker retreats you are asking about. Since there are no territories of unresolved combats that are currently under their control this sandwiching rule can’t affect attackers.

2. I think we can make naval retrats better. What if we say defender naval retreats stay in that sea zone and move out on their next turn? The defneder also has the choice of not moving and sending in reinforcment naval units to attack in that sea zone again (a faint retreat). We should restrict where the units could retreat so that they still can’t move where attacking units came from. The defender would remember (or write down?) where he can and can’t retreat to until his next turn.

3. Battle of Kursk

Here is from Wikipedia (notice what I made bold):

On July 4, the Wehrmacht launched a much-delayed offensive against the Soviet Union at the Kursk salient. Their intentions were known by the Soviets, and they hastened to defend the salient with an enormous system of earthwork defenses. Both sides massed their armor for what became a decisive military engagement. The Germans attacked from both the north and south of the salient and hoped to meet in the middle, cutting off the salient and trapping 60 Soviet divisions. The German offensive was ground down as little progress was made through the Soviet defenses. The Soviets then brought up their reserves, and the largest tank battle of the war occurred near the city of Prokhorovka. The Germans had exhausted their armored forces and could not stop the Soviet counter-offensive that threw them back across their starting positions.

Germans trapped the Soviets behind enemy lines so the Soviets had no where to retreat. They would have died had the Soviet reinforcements not saved them. This example doesn’t result in the killing of the would-be retreaters so maybe we should use a different example?