I have moved the follow up discussion about Loading Transports in Hostile Seazones in the Classic Editon to the Classic-Category:
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/35796/loading-transports-in-hostile-seazones
Question for a battle result (rules of global 1940)
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@fatoumas No. Transports can be chosen as casualties only if there are no other eligible units. As many hits as possible must be assigned and the transport must be chosen last. So in your scenario the sub’s hit must be assigned to the destroyer.
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Thanks for your fast response. The key here is the statement you made. “As many hits as possible”
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Hey @Panther, could you elaborate a little more?
In this example, the maximum amount of hits are being assigned(3 hits). The transport has protection as there are remaining friendly units in the zone (that aren’t subs or transports) and not defenseless. It is a participant in the combat. No hits are being cancelled or negated. Per page 33 under the Chosen Last rule, the transport must be chosen last unless there are no other eligible units.
If the chosen casualties for the aircraft hits are the destroyer and a fighter, leaving the hit from the sub the only one unaccounted for, and the transport is the only eligible unit (and is not defenseless and it still has protection from the aircraft), could not the hit be assigned to the transport?
EDIT: Clearing up the language
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@Channel_Three Sure. The sub cannot hit the planes. So its hit can only be assigned to the destroyer or the transport. As the transport must be chosen last the only eligible hit is the destroyer. That leaves fighters and the transport for the remaining two hits. As the transport must be chosen last the fighters are lost.
Or in other words: In your scenario where three hits have to be assigned against four units (including one transport) the three hits must be assigned in a way that respects the “chosen last” rule for the transport. This is only possible if done as described above.
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Thanks for the clarification @Panther
Having said that, I pulled from what you said: Casualties aren’t sequentially chosen after the attacker rolls (the fighter dies then the sub dies then the fighter dies etc) and a unit can’t go from uneligible to hit to eligible to hit in the same round?
EDIT: Misread an earlier line @Panther , removed my response to it
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@Channel_Three
From the rulebook, Pacific 1940.2, page 19:
“After the attacking player has rolled for all attacking units, the defender chooses 1 unit for each hit scored and moves it behind the casualty strip.”
(bolded by me)
That means the attacker scores three hits und the defender takes out three units following the rules.There would be a sequence in case the attacking submarine had a surprise strike (lets say there is a defending cruiser instead of a destroyer), as surprise strikes occur before regular combat. But in that case the cruiser must be chosen as casualty instead of the transport, too.
In case the attacker had scored 4 hits, the transport would be an eligible unit during the same round of combat.
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@Panther
Well yes, there is a sequence to the turn, and the surprise strike is a specific part of the Combat phase (taking place towards the start of it) but I meant in the case of removing casualties sequentially (as in, one after the other. As in, the removal of one affects the remainder) after the attacker has rolled his hit dice. If this is how removing casualties occur and and a unit can go from ineligible to the eligible in the same round then this is the scenario:
1 sub, 2 fighter, 2 tacs VS 2 fighters, 1 dest, 1 transport on defense. Attacker scores 3 hits (2 aircraft, 1 from sub)If I am the defender, as the first casualty from the one of the aircraft hits (any defending unit can be removed except the transport) I choose the destroyer. As the second casualty (from one of the aircraft), I choose one of the fighters. The only unallocated hit is the sub (and this hit must be allocated if possible). With the removal of the destroyer (because remember, it is sequential, the destroyer is dead before the sub casualty is removed and units can go from ineligible to be hit to eligible to be hit), the transport is now the only eligible target for the sub and is removed as a casualty. I haven’t negated the hit or cancelled it (that would be against the rules for maximizing hits). The transport isn’t defenseless as there are still friendly units in the same zone that aren’t other transports (that can fight and there are attacking units present that can still kill it and be killed by it) and the transport is an active participant in the combat (per pg 19) that can only be taken as a casualty if there are no other eligible units.
As for your example, that lends weight to what I am saying, though the outcome is the same. If you scored 4 hits but the transport remained ineligible (thus the 4th hit was negated), for example, then everything else is dead, the transport falls under the Defenseless Transport rule and is removed automatically regardless.
EDIT: I have the dumbs, can’t word
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@Channel_Three
The only sequence I spoke about was taking out units because of a surprise strike that occurrs before regular combat.Otherwise there is no sequence of taking out units. You are not free to do as you intend.
In your scenario - when three hits are scored including one of the submarine, the defender has to take out the units that allow the submarine’s hit to be assigned correctly and that respects the transport chosen last rule.In other words: If there is a way to let the transport “survive” the currently scored hits you must act accordingly.
The rules are this way to prevent from transports being (ab-)used as cheap cannon fodder.
The defenseless transport rule follows up, after that.
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@Panther
Understood. Thank you for the help! -
@Channel_Three Anytime, you are welcome.
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