AARHE: Phase 2: Neutrals

Sweden should continue aid to germany at 2 ipc untill the allies control finland and norway… that isolation would have forced “Neutral Sweden” into a more neutral track

Afghanistan, Asia

Angola, Africa: All units allowed to go through and stay.

Argentina, South America

Himalaya, Asia: Air units allowed to fly through?

Mongolia, Asia

Mozambique, Africa: All units allowed to go through and stay.

Peru, South America

Rio De Oro, Africa: All units allowed to go through and stay.

Sahara, Asia: All units allowed to go through but not stay?

Saudi Arabia, Asia

Spain, Europe

Sweden, Europe: Germany received 2 additional IPCs until Norway is first captured by Allies?

Switzerland, Europe

Turkey, Europe

Venezuela, South America

in every case a value needs to be assigned where perfect neutral is zero, positive =allies influenced, axis =negative influenced
also an index of the nations forces needs to be established and rules about DOW and values assigned to them.

-2 axis can stay
-1 axis can go thru
0 neutral, geographic difficulties (eg. Himalayas)
1 allies can go thru
2 allies can stay

…. not sure … i was thinking to have -7 thru 0 and up to +7 for a total of 15 values. perfect neutral is 0 and the range of neutrality is -2 thru +2… pro allies +3—+7 and pro axis is -3-----  -7  each of the five levels has a specific value to benifit either side.

OK heres an example:

Somehow Spain falls from neutral -2 into -3 which is slightly pro axis.

-3= Air units can fly over this neutral
-4= You gain the neutrals money (consider it aid)
-5= Your armed forces can move thru this neutral w/o penalty
-6= The neutral now allows its armed forces to be involved in attacks against adjacent country’s
-7= The neutrals economy and armed forces are now in direct control of the coalition they are aligned with… these forces can be sent anywhere the player wishes.

this would be the same hierarchy for axis or allies.
the allies would be positive integers
specific events would trigger a neutral status roll… e.g. taking a neighbor over by conquest would allow a roll.

the “die roll” consists of each side rolling once … whoever wins gets the status moved up or down the neutral scale… modifications for as i said taking a country next to the neutral or taking out a major player or VC… many things could happen.

Their is no such case. I thought further on this…

Germany gets 2 rolls
USA gets 2 rolls
UK gets 1 roll
japan and USSR get zero rolls

each turn one neutral can be targeted for change in status: if you roll a 6 or higher the neutral nation moves closer to align with your camp. Only one roll per neutral and each territory you own adjacent to this territory gives you a +1 modification on the roll.

some neutrals are at perfect zero, while others are either up or down the scale. Once a nation passes into your camp… then the other side cannot convert it back. so if a neutral is at -3 its in the axis camp no matter what.

I will prepare other modifications based on if you own a specific nation to model history.

the idea works very well… because say the allies move argentina toward becoming an ally… the axis can counter on its turn and attempt to move it back into neutrality.

this sounds cool!

They cant “switch”… reread my last post… once its in your camp thats it… On the issue of switzerland they would be at zero which requires 3 movement points to get it in your camp, plus they would only get about one infantry as forces and a economic value of say 1…so bottom line it would be a waste of your roll for the value in return. The battleground would be turkey, sweden, spain, south america and naturally some are closer to the axis camp than allies while others are pro allies or neutral +1 or +2

adjacent territories

eg. being surrounded by Axis, Switzerland is not going to switch to pro-Allies

frequent switching

ensure neutrals don’t keep switching sides…because that wouldn’t be right

occupying forces

the status of a neutral should freeze if there is occupying forces

levels

how about just

-3 full axis, no longer neutral, invadable by allies
-2 axis forces can go thru
-1 income to axis
0 neutral
+1 allies ditto
+2 allies ditto
+3 allies ditto

++++ this can work but the neutral needs to be three clicks so both axis and allies can “compete” for support…

example: axis move argentina from neutral to -1… now the allies dont have any chance to counter to bring it back into neutrality…

the values should be either 3 or 5 for each catagory… how much different is it under my system, plus it allows more possible situations that are historically accurate. having 3 choices … its allmost like no graduations within each status…

1. its your ally
2. you get money
3. it fights to the death on your behalf

at least the 5 spot choice has a bit more flavor dont you think?

income

Afghanistan, Asia: 1
Angola, Africa: 0
Argentina, South America: 2
Eire, Europe: 0
Himalaya, Asia: 0
Mongolia, Asia: 1
Mozambique, Africa: 0
Peru, South America: 1
Rio De Oro, Africa: 0
Sahara, Asia: 0
Saudi Arabia, Asia: 2
Spain, Europe: 4
Sweden, Europe: 2
Switzerland, Europe: 1
Turkey, Europe: 3
Venezuela, South America: 1

OK lets try a 11 step tier:

+5= They become your full ally they fight your battles
+4= you can move your forces thru them.
+3= You gain the neutrals money (consider it aid)
+2= slightly less neutral, but Allied Air units can fly over the airspace ( still neutral)
+1= less neutral
  0 = perfect neutral
-1 = less neutral
-2 = slightly less neutral, but axis Air units can fly over the airspace ( still neutral)
-3= You gain the neutrals money (consider it aid)
-4= you can move your forces thru them.
-5= They become your full ally they fight your battles

USA rolls 2 dice a turn, UK one

Germany rolls 2 dice per turn

success on a 6+  modification for each NEW additional adjacent territory you control =+1
new Control of the nation that is adjacent=+2
conquering a major power= +3

Example: Sweden starts at -2 and on Germanyy turn they wish to make her a better ally… she uses one roll to convert… no modifications because the german controlled territories that are adjacent are not NEWLY controlled… germany rolls a 5 and misses… she will try next time…

OK now the allies took out Finland /Norway and wish to push Sweden back down the other direction… they get a +1 and also roll a 5 but the +1 makes it a six and now Sweden is at -1 and now germany cannot move planes into its airspace.

to sum up neutrality is technically 5 slots which can be affected by rolls by either side. Secondly once the neutral is in the camp of  the other side it cannot be moved back.it can however be further moved in the alliances direction.

Ok in your 5 slot system, at which point can you invade them?

++++ you can invade any neutral at any time… this makes the neutral automatically join the other side as an ally.

Sweden gave income to Germany in WWII right?

++++ yes they did

But Allies didn’t invade them did they?

++++ no and latter in the war when finland fell sweden was pressured in going back to neutrality ( not pro- axis)

adjacent territories - fixed, you’ve got a +1 +2 +3 scheme

frequent switching - fixed, can’t go back towards netural as soon as level +3 or -3?

++++ yes +3 or -3 right thats the boundry line.

occupying forces - fixed, since you can only have occupying force if you become full Axis or full Allies

++++ well yes.

But I worry 5 steps is too long for Neutrals to join up.
Now about back to 3 steps again, but air space before income.

++++ the reasoning why the neutral stands at 5 and allies are 3 tiers is due too provide more decisions… example: the US player has shifted the neutral 2 one notch toward allies but the german can have a chance to reverse this with its own roll. many neutrals are not at zero… in fact perhaps one would be at zero… all the rest are 1-2 notches from either axis or allied camp. if we go with 3 possible outcomes we lose the “back and forth” action because it will be much harder to neutrals to get pulled back in line due to the one in 6 outcome. it will take about 3-4 rolls to succeed.

secondly i would not like to see too many neutrals change positions in the game…

+3 Allies control
+2 Allies income
+1 Allies air space
0 Neutral
-1
-2
-3

Now you have time to counter before physical advantage such as income comes into effect

+++under that system their is no reaction time to possibly have any chance to make the ally move back the other way. its kinda like tech… once you get the heavy bombers… the other player has little chance to get the same unless he could have earlier chances to address the issue with his own rolls. play test the rules . do it for a 10 turn run and post results.

That looks good… some of the forces are not accurate with my sources… ill convert these armies…