Bombers transporting infantry

Hi Manstein,

Cool stuff. Thanks for sharing:+1:

@Valladares
There’s been a lot of discussion on CAs. Two of the more popular opinions seem to be letting them transport 1 Marine/Elite type unit for amphibious attack. The other is giving it some sort of AA capability.

As far as Mech, their mobility is their worth imo. Combine them with Bombers for striking power and they can be quite effective. Some countries will use them more than others. Germany and JPN and UK coming up out of Africa probably the most. I tend to not as much with USA as I like Inf/Arty to establish a beachhead in Western Europe. Then some speed units out of the factories, especially if I’m in Norway. I don’t usually go into Africa with them, but you’d want speed there too imo.

It’s nice to have a small mechanized force with Russia if you can afford it. Just having the threat of a Quick Reaction Force can limit some moves by the enemy. Or at least make them think about it.

Usually like a 2:1 ratio with Armor. Especially Germany. Not sure how others do it. I should probably study some more games others have played. It seems I always get sidetracked doing other stuff though :)

@Imperious:

An 8 IPC air transport carrying a unit 6 spaces is worth far more than a sea transport. You all need to increase the cost to 12

I am only charging 10 IPCs for Fighters, I don’t see charging more than that for planes that can neither attack or defend. But I do agree that fast moving reinforcements are very useful. So, let’s make them 10 IPCs units as well for now.

To re-cap what I am going with for my rule set from all that has been discussed in this thread:

Paratroopers
Unit Name    IPC Cost ATK DEF MOVE Notes
Paratroopers      4      1*  2    1    Noted by Country Marker or an Airborne disc beneath an Infantry.

Paratroopers attack increases to 2 when doing an Airborne Assault. In every round of combat where Paratroopers have done an Airborne Assault, the first offensive casualty of the round must be a Paratrooper.

Cargo Planes
Unit Name    IPC Cost ATK DEF MOVE Notes
Air Transport    10      0    0    6    Noted by Country Marker or an Airborne disc beneath Fighter or Bomber. Can carry one Infantry or Paratroopers unit. May be used to help a Paratroopers unit perform an Airborne Assault.

Paratroopers - The “Poor Bloody Infantry”, now with wings. Can be noted by Country Marker disc or an HBG Airborne marker beneath an Infantry. Paratroopers attack increases to 2 when doing an Airborne Assault OR when combined with Artillery. Combining both bonuses is not allowed.

Air Transport - A grouping of the humble cargo aircraft, this unit has 3x the speed and 1/3 the capacity of regular Transports. Can be noted by Country Marker disc or an HBG Airborne marker beneath Fighter or Bomber. Used to help Paratroopers conduct Airborne Assaults. Except for satisfying hits from AAA, Air Transports can not be taken as casualties in either Attack or Defense and are simply all destroyed if they are the last units present in a defending territory.

For context, in my rule set Transports cost 8 IPCs, have a defense of 1 and a move of 2, and can carry 3 Infantry or 1 (Armor or AAA) and 1 Infantry.

Airborne Assault - During the Combat Movement phase, a power may declare an Airborne Assault. The territory to be attacked by the Airborne Assault must be within the range of at least one of that power’s Air Transports. (Air Transports must end their movement at a friendly territory, no different from any other Combat Movement by an aircraft unit.) Additionally, the territory receiving the Airborne Assault must be no further away than two (ground and/or sea) territories with friendly ground units.
    The Air Transports conducting an Airborne Assault are subject to AAA fire, as per normal rules. If the Air Transport is successful at arriving over the drop zone, (i.e. is not shot down by anti-aircraft fire) then the attacking unit adds a +1 to its attack roll for the duration of that battle. The Air Transport can not be taken as a casualty to satisfy a Land Combat hit taken while fighting the Airborne Assault.
    In every round of combat where Paratroopers have done an Airborne Assault, the first offensive casualty of the round must be a Paratrooper. This is a self-limiting system. Paratroopers keep their attack of 2 for conducting an Airborne Assault for the duration of the Airborne Assault, but are only guaranteed to be around for a number of rounds equal to the number of Paratroopers in the attack.

-Midnight_Reaper

I like the idea of Transports as units that are A0 D0 M2 C7 units that haul ground units from one shore to another. I also like the idea of groups of transports, that’s 2 or more transports, have a single collective defense roll of 1 on a d6. The transports would be taken as casualties last but so long as there’s 2 or more, they continue to take potshots @ 1 at their tormentors.

And here I thought I was being unique for having thought that up myself, before I read this thread. Parallel Evolution, I guess.

-Midnight_Reaper

It is always good to start by playing triple A, USA8, as a way of learning the basics. That is how many of us started out.

Of course you can now play other members of the forum using triple A. If you ever want to do that and need any pointers at what to do then just ask.

It may be hard to find an opponent who wants to play 1941 however.

@arwaker:

The less different types of units you have in the game, the more of the specific sculpts are in the box.
I dont see the advantage in stategic depth of the game a tactical bomber could offer, to compensate the reduction of specific sculpts and the complification of the rules.

However, one can introduce as many new types of units he wants (as a house rule). What about assault guns, interceptors, frigates or landmines? Would they increase the funfactor of the game? I’m not sure. Same as with tactical bombers.

If there is no Air Base or Naval Base and having only the combined arms: giving +1 to attack if tactical bomber is paired to Fg or Tank, I agree there is not much additional strategic depth about it.
The fun thing is only about having more different sculpts Inside the Box.
From a collectors POV, it seems more interesting having more different units than fewer types but more of them. Isn’t it?
Chips are provided when you have many units of the same type.

Of course, it adds more specific rules. That’s the issue specifically treated by 1941 game.
Simpler and shorter for beginner.

1942 can be more develop with sculpts without extending the play-time or the whole map (not excluding a few changes, like the no-IPC value Islands in Pacific, for instance).
Global is made for hard-core players who have a lot of time.

From what I experimented, I could say that adding Mechanized Infantry and Tactical Bomber (and even a 5 IPCs’ Mechanized Artillery (assault Gun) and 9-10 IPCs Escort Carrier, HBG sculpt) can provides a deeper experience and feel of WWII at a strategic level without having to plan for a 2-days event.

Although, your focus on increasing “strategic depth”, makes we think about the two game mechanics brought to hit directly planes. And in this perspective, one seems better compared to the other.
The one I introduced in my opening post is better because it allows a specific unit (Fighter), a specific capacity: targeting enemy’s plane first (costlier target), while Tactical Bomber also received his specific capacity (being a better hitter on ground targets, but not necessarily on costlier targets).

The other way of creating somekind of dogfight between planes is to allow “1” or “2” rolled by aircrafts to destroy enemy’s.
The mechanic can work but doesn’t seems to increase the strategic depth as much as the former.
Fighter and Tactical have similar abilities, (carrier operation, regular hit, special roll) one have more of this and the other less of that (Fg on “1” or “2” / TcB on “1” only, cannot intercept in SBR).

Do you agree on this last point?

Here is a complete roster with a different Fighter unit (A2 D2 M4 C6) combined with an entirely 3 planes Fleet Carrier for either Fighter or Tactical Bomber units.
Even with a radical change in cost, I think it brings a much better interactions between units and mainly aircrafts from a gameplay perspective than the one I suggested in the opening post and poll of this actual thread.
You should take a look.
Baron Munchhausen’s G40HR Roster for 3 planes carrier & 6 IPCs 1914 Fighter
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35222.msg1370798#msg1370798

Maybe they could get a single premtive attack in land combat like a sub (AA gun preventable of course). This simulates bombing before an operation. However I think that adding completely new rules for air units would be interesting.

1 bomber per carrier, but can’t “land” on a carrier out at sea.  It must be “loaded” from land onto the carrier in an adjacent sea zone, similar to how fighters can be immediately deployed on to a built carrier.