After 45 years why not try something different?

@El:

For 45 years Fidel Castro has been Dictator of Cuba(pronounced “Ku’ ba”.)
For most of that time the US has embargoed most, if not all, products/trade to/from Cuba. Yet with the trade of other countries Fidel has held a Leaky Iron Fist around the throat of the Cuban peoples.

that’s a cute metaphor. It’s not really that accurate, however.

Don’t you agree that free trade would have opened the doors and changed the government in a shorter time…see Vietnam for a ‘moderate’ variation on this idea.

ABSOLUTELY!!!
Finally a conservative/republican with a reasonable perspective. The US has done everything wrong with Cuba since forever.
Look at the Spanish-American war and the sinking of the Maine (although maybe don’t look at it from the perspective of a conservative site this time . . . ).

What’s happenin’ now?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/18/120401.shtml

this leaves out a LOT of background and colors the events in a very biased way.

A short internet history of the Cuban Revolution…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution

not enough time to read it, but again missing a lot of background up until 1960.

Cuba sucks, kill Castro, poblem solved.

Sorry, sometimes I just have to vent my rage. :D

CC, i really dont think that trade with Cuba would change anything. Castro isnt gonna care if hes using American or French toilet paper.

have you used french toilet paper? i WOULD care if i had to use french toilet paper. its like those people have never heard of comfort. come to think of it, forget all the other reasons, thats why france sucks. they use actual paper to wipe their ass

Let Cuba and Castro rot until one of them dies, then rebuild the casinos and tourism and turn it back into our proto state as it should be. Just another Bloodless conquest.

Could those commenting about Cuba and Castro maybe be limited to only those people who actually know something ABOUT Cuba and Castro? Also it would be nice if you at least have something interesting/intelligent/relevant to say. Goodness - it feels like my brain is actually equipped with pain sensors and someone is pouring acid all about my frontal lobes. It is all i can do to merely control the impulsivity that this sensation is generating.

Don’t you agree that free trade would have opened the doors and changed the government in a shorter time

OK now the professional answer but with the same message for those who care…

Problems of continuing the trade embargo:

1)It will not get rid of castro because he still has power after 40 years.

2)Efforts to intice other latin american governments to cooperate with our current Cuba policy risks disruptions in relations with our allies and trading partners in the area.

3)Holding to the embargo and refusing to negotiate ignores other US interests such as compensation for lost properties (Casinos) and profits from opening US - Cuban trade.

4)Our Embargo basically adds to suffering.

NOW in logical response to these potential problems still larger solutions are granted by continuation of our policy:

1. It stems the tide of “Domino Communism” that was prevelant in the 1970-80’s and plugs any more would be Leftist forces causing problems and destabilization in the area.

2. It says to the world that we dont tolerate dictators who needlessly put entire populations thru major pain for their own agrandizement.

3. It had offered the opportinity for the people themselves to overthrow Castro and on occasion we tried to help them (bay of Pigs). After a period of time if they dont see any hope or future or cant bring their own change, then we basically can only do so much.

4. Trading with Cuba would offer no long term satisfications to our economy, because they offer nothing of value to us. We can get sugar and bananas from ourselves and other trading partners. Example: if we traded with North Korea it would be the same thing… Nothing but old antiquated Soviet Technology used for military purposes.

On the base of these findings we should just do excatly as i have so elloquently stated namely:

Let Cuba and Castro rot until one of them dies, then rebuild the casinos and tourism and turn it back into our proto state as it should be. Just another Bloodless conquest.

@Imperious:

Problems of continuing the trade embargo:

1)It will not get rid of castro because he still has power after 40 years.

2)Efforts to intice other latin american governments to cooperate with our current Cuba policy risks disruptions in relations with our allies and trading partners in the area.

3)Holding to the embargo and refusing to negotiate ignores other US interests such as compensation for lost properties (Casinos) and profits from opening US - Cuban trade.

4)Our Embargo basically adds to suffering.

Thank you.
The above is fairly well-reasoned. You are missing some, but overall - not bad.

1. It stems the tide of “Domino Communism” that was prevelant in the 1970-80’s and plugs any more would be Leftist forces causing problems and destabilization in the area.

does anyone actually believe this?
Is there any proof behind the “domino theory of communism”? Has communism ever actually took root in a place that did NOT require a wholesale change of gov’t? It seems to me that communism has been the gov’t that was most implementable by a people who were being screwed by their government. I could not fathom a group of people (Canada, America, Australia etc.) - where the quality of life of the majority of people is reasonable - would willingly turn to communism.
Finally, there is the opinion that Castro merely wished to install a sociallist government. Very soon after the revolution, the US declared Cuba to be an enemy. What do you do when your next-door neighbour (the most powerful nation in the world) decides that you are its enemy? You turn to the next most powerful nation in the world. This required a closer aligning of Castros ideology with his new ally, and since Russia was not going to become LESS communist, then Cuba was to become MORE communist. Basically the actions of the US put Cuba between a rock and a hard place.

2. It says to the world that we dont tolerate dictators who needlessly put entire populations thru major pain for their own agrandizement.

Do you think that maybe when you installed Pinochet, supported SH, OBL etc. that you said to the rest of the world that you actually found these kinds of dictators handy (there were several other latin American countries where democratically elected gov’ts were overthrown by US-CIA forces and replaced by US-friendly dictators - as well).

3. It had offered the opportinity for the people themselves to overthrow Castro and on occasion we tried to help them (bay of Pigs). After a period of time if they dont see any hope or future or cant bring their own change, then we basically can only do so much.

not a great reason for continuing pointless sanctions. Also the “people” were Cubans who had left Cuba - typically those who had benefitted from the corruption of Batista’s evil and tyrannical regime.

4. Trading with Cuba would offer no long term satisfications to our economy, because they offer nothing of value to us. We can get sugar and bananas from ourselves and other trading partners. Example: if we traded with North Korea it would be the same thing… Nothing but old antiquated Soviet Technology used for military purposes.

This is a pretty narrow perspective. The US used to be Cuba’s largest trading partner, and there was more than sugar and bananas (in fact, i don’t recall bananas as being such a massive industry). Anyway, they do have the greatest cigars in the world (AFAIK), and although they don’t have a lot in exports, they do tend to purchase quite a bit of stuff. Also tourism there is pretty good for a 5-year old industry (not that this country really needs US-ans).

The thing is that the Cubans had been cut off from US imports and from exports to the US which would limit their ability to generate better exports than Rum.

Also note that although “human rights” are possibly less a priority for the Castro gov’t than the Bush gov’t (arguable), social rights are rated (IMO) much more highly there. Cubans have a longer life-span than Americans with a lower infant mortality rate, and a higher literacy rate with a sixth the AIDS rate of the US.

and a higher literacy rate with a sixth the AIDS rate of the US.

If we didnt have open borders our nation would stand better in thei regard.
As far as Aids… its basically that all the infected people can come in this nation, while in Cuba they wont let you come and turn into rif raf. Thats the nature of Dictatorship… some social ills are removed due to the lack of freedom to be a wierdo. If you dont shape up you get thrown out which is the way it should be.

On the imports thing… The isolation brought this condition of useless exports when the Casinos go back up it will become a goldmine again-

@Imperious:

4. Trading with Cuba would offer no long term satisfications to our economy, because they offer nothing of value to us.

Economy 101: It is the relative benefit that counts … AKA comparative costs. As soon as they can produce something realtively cheaper than the US, it is better for the US to import that.
Ever wondered why the EU and USA have these huge tariffs on agricultural products?

@Imperious:

and a higher literacy rate with a sixth the AIDS rate of the US.

If we didnt have open borders our nation would stand better in thei regard.
As far as Aids… its basically that all the infected people can come in this nation, while in Cuba they wont let you come and turn into rif raf.

yeah, it is well known that it was only immigration of uneducated HIV positive people that turned central Africa into the mess it is today. I feel you fell for some extremely right wing and nationalist populistic propaganda.

@F_alk:

@Imperious:

4. Trading with Cuba would offer no long term satisfications to our economy, because they offer nothing of value to us.

Economy 101: It is the relative benefit that counts … AKA comparative costs. As soon as they can produce something realtively cheaper than the US, it is better for the US to import that.
Ever wondered why the EU and USA have these huge tariffs on agricultural products?

@Imperious:

and a higher literacy rate with a sixth the AIDS rate of the US.

If we didnt have open borders our nation would stand better in thei regard.
As far as Aids… its basically that all the infected people can come in this nation, while in Cuba they wont let you come and turn into rif raf.

yeah, it is well known that it was only immigration of uneducated HIV positive people that turned central Africa into the mess it is today. I feel you fell for some extremely right wing and nationalist populistic propaganda.

Also - i know that in Canada we screen our African immigrants quite carefully for HIV AND TB. Now some African (Rwandan) refugees have arrived with AIDS, however this occurrance is otherwise pretty rare. Does the US not have any kind of medical screening system in place? Or do we only have it because of our national health care?

@marine36:

… kill Castro…

@Imperious:

Let … Castro rot until (he) dies…

Yes, we all “hate” the USA because we are only envious of their material riches and empty heads.

Economy 101: It is the relative benefit that counts … AKA comparative costs. As soon as they can produce something realtively cheaper than the US, it is better for the US to import that.
Ever wondered why the EU and USA have these huge tariffs on agricultural products?

You confirmed my point. Cuba at this time has nothing of value unless you smoke and that in itself cant sustain a modern economy. Thanks

yeah, it is well known that it was only immigration of uneducated HIV positive people that turned central Africa into the mess it is today. I feel you fell for some extremely right wing and nationalist populistic propaganda.

Stick to point: IN CUBA their “system” prevents these same people from screwing up the structure of their society. Being an island helps alot as well, while they posess adequate medical technologies ( it has been a heavy investment for many years) It has sustained them. If we have to open another can of worms the problem in Afrika is also open borders, while this allows even poorer people who are infected from traveling around looking for medical care and better conditions. This would have never happened during colonial rule. That entire continent (sake egypt)should be repossessed by Europe and returned to those heirs.

Yes, we all “hate” the USA because we are only envious of their material riches and empty heads.

They hate us because we fight for what we want and achieve it on a daily basis because of our system ,while and they dont and they know it. Its easy to hate out of want and needs.

@Imperious:

Economy 101: It is the relative benefit that counts … AKA comparative costs. As soon as they can produce something realtively cheaper than the US, it is better for the US to import that.
Ever wondered why the EU and USA have these huge tariffs on agricultural products?

You confirmed my point. Cuba at this time has nothing of value unless you smoke and that in itself cant sustain a modern economy. Thanks

I did not. It doesn’t matter wether anything is “of value” as long as they can produce something relatively cheaper. If they can produce … say one TV set or one yacht … and the US can produce … say 1000 TVs or one yacht … then the Cubans are producing yachts relatively cheaper and should produce so.

Your display of economic knowledge is discouraging.

Stick to point: …

All nice reasons … and totally unrelated to your previous “open borders” argument.

If we have to open another can of worms the problem in Afrika is also open borders, while this allows even poorer people who are infected from traveling around looking for medical care and better conditions.

“poorer people” in Africa surely do not “travel around”.

This would have never happened during colonial rule. That entire continent (sake egypt)should be repossessed by Europe and returned to those heirs.

First things first … i think older “lost colonies” are first to re-conquered.

Yes, we all “hate” the USA because we are only envious of their material riches and empty heads.

They hate us because we fight for what we want and achieve it on a daily basis because of our system ,while and they dont and they know it. Its easy to hate out of want and needs.

First: the correct declination would have been the plural “You”… and …ah bugger, why should an ESL teach you.
Second: Yeah, sure.

It doesn’t matter wether anything is “of value” as long as they can produce something relatively cheaper

Economy 102: The semantics of “value” pertain to the same as you have pointed out namely: the ability to offer a product or service cheaper or more economically efficient than the next person. You HAVE made my point and still dont realize it . Geez…

poorer people" in Africa surely do not “travel around”.

did you ask them? Actually the higher elements of professionals are leaving Afrika and going to Europe. While the poorer elements either sit and rot or try “out of need” for something more across borders into more affluent neighbors. Either by fight or flight they struggle as we all do. Its easy to do so when the borders dont exist . Look at the poor that come to United States (the land of stinking capitalists who impoverished the world according to the narrow minded leftist groups)

@cystic:

@El:

For 45 years Fidel Castro has been Dictator of Cuba(pronounced “Ku’ ba”.)
For most of that time the US has embargoed most, if not all, products/trade to/from Cuba. Yet with the trade of other countries Fidel has held a Leaky Iron Fist around the throat of the Cuban peoples.

that’s a cute metaphor. It’s not really that accurate, however.

Don’t you agree that free trade would have opened the doors and changed the government in a shorter time…see Vietnam for a ‘moderate’ variation on this idea.

ABSOLUTELY!!!
Finally a conservative/republican with a reasonable perspective. The US has done everything wrong with Cuba since forever.
Look at the Spanish-American war and the sinking of the Maine (although maybe don’t look at it from the perspective of a conservative site this time . . . ).

What’s happenin’ now?
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/9/18/120401.shtml

this leaves out a LOT of background and colors the events in a very biased way.

A short internet history of the Cuban Revolution…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution

not enough time to read it, but again missing a lot of background up until 1960.

I generaly have little interest in cuba. Castro is Castro, and cuba is not going to do anything major ( either way) for or to the US economy. I say don’t trade with them, if for no other reason than the rest of the world who hate our “meddling” in thier politics can look to Cuba and see how great the world can be w/o the US in it.

Fidel was popular, the people supported him. Now they can reap the poverty they have sewn with thier beloved dictator. If they get sick of him, they should overthrow him, and than I can see US support and/or trade. Until than, they’re on thier own.

Ahh excellent another hammer of truth! Good im glad i wasnt the only person who heard the whistle coming from their ears’ as the wind blew thru them. Your conclusion is adequate and fitting… let him rot untill he is replaced by his brother or son which would be a typical result and will expose the reality of this regime for what it is… then finally we can reinvade and rebuild the Casinos and Mcdonalds and (even taco bell) and have a nice day. Would you like to supersize that combo?

@Imperious:

It doesn’t matter wether anything is “of value” as long as they can produce something relatively cheaper

Economy 102: The semantics of “value” pertain to the same as you have pointed out namely: the ability to offer a product or service cheaper or more economically efficient than the next person.

Noho …
it is not cheaper … it is relatively cheaper, even if it is absolutely more expensive, that makes the difference. And there are zillions of things that Cuba can produce relatively cheaper.

poorer people" in Africa surely do not “travel around”.

did you ask them?

i would guess i asked as many as you did.

@Imperious:

Ahh excellent another hammer of truth! Good im glad i wasnt the only person who heard the whistle coming from their ears’ as the wind blew thru them.

kind of rude, and i would not tolerate this if said about another board member.
Fortunately it seems that i am more intelligent than you, so i can absorb this more easily.

Your conclusion is adequate and fitting… let him rot untill he is replaced by his brother or son which would be a typical result and will expose the reality of this regime for what it is… then finally we can reinvade and rebuild the Casinos and Mcdonalds and (even taco bell) and have a nice day. Would you like to supersize that combo?

neo-con tripe.