To Taranto, or not to Taranto

I respectfully disagree that Taranto has to be done. There are two perfectly good options that allow the UK to defend both London proper and Egypt. It is true that not doing Taranto leaves the bulk of the Italian fleet intact, but it also makes the Mediterranean play more interesting and if done properly detracts from Germany’s push into Russia by forcing Italy to continue building naval forces with its limited income in order to preserve its valuable fleet. Somewhere in the threads from a few years ago one of these options is spelled out in detail.

Marsh

@MarshmallowofWar

https://youtu.be/htJEztSxmo8?feature=shared

This is one of the many alternatives for Taranto.

You might even buy a minor in Egypte on UK1 and hold it with this move.

@Cornwallis I call thee necromancer, as thou hast brought a thread back from the dead!

Also, don’t know why you think I would want this, as I was the one saying that Taranto ISN’T necessary. Perhaps you could address your post to the people who think Taranto is necessary.

Marsh

@MarshmallowofWar i had to reply to a post in order to continue the debate.
Did you watch the video?

@Cornwallis won’t Italy just clear the Med and take Gibraltar on I1, and reinforce Gibraltar with a few German planes on G2? Meanwhile the North Africa stack retreats westward to pull UK forces away from the Middle East if pursued, and cause small headaches with the East African forces.

Italy goes up from the Med and Gibraltar bonuses while UK loses one of their bonuses. Eventually Italy gets overwhelmed when the United States throws a large number of forces into the Atlantic, but not before the Axis gain a nice head start in the economy.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris
Italy can always take Gibraltar on I1 bc they will always have at least one transport left.
So yes they can take and hold until US blows them out of there on US2 or US3.
Bc i don´t do Taranto i have 3 or 4 fightrrs on Londen (with maybe the bomber) so Italy needs to send a portion of its fleet to protect the transports or i take them on UK2.
The UK2 will almost Never have their bonus on UK2 bc italy can always take Cyprus and hold it for one turn.

The Italian stack can´t do a lot. My goal is to protect egypt and secondly deny Italy their bonusses.
Itzly can not destroy the french fleet, cruiser at Malta, destroyer at greece AND take Gibraltar and take greece plus protect their fleet from a Taranto 2.0
The stack from Tobruk can´t do much except roaming around. Not much money there.

With this move you can safely buy and hold a factory on egypt UK1 which offers perspectives on UK2. Italy can have 2 bonusses on I1 but they can have those in a taranto game as well. But they will overstretch too fast now bc UK has more striking power left for UK2.

Not unfailable off course but i think it´s a safe move.

@Cornwallis Gibraltar is a pain to retake as German fighters can stay there for quite a while until they are needed to support the final phases of Barbarossa or the United States has a large fleet to both have enough transports and protecting ships. I often can stay there until turn 4. I love the income swing along with keeping the Allied fleet away from Western Europe.

If you frequently build a factory in Egypt on UK1, I will be sealioning with Germany. A couple bombers on G1 followed by the full transport build on G2. If i remember the math, it has a high likelihood of success and now the United Kingdom has an idle factory in Africa. That Red Sea fleet is too weak to do much if London falls on G3 but haven’t played through it.

What is the advantage of your plan vs moving the uk fleet next to Gibraltar?

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris
Cyprus can be a pain in the ass to, or Malta.
The UK1 buy would be a minor with 5 inf. I don´t take any fighters away from UK. The minor is an option, dependibg of course on a G1 built .

The Gibastiin move always fails i must say. You need to hold Algeria or italy takes it and gives a landing spot for Ger fighters which can wie out the fleet on G2. Or when they take S France on G1 they can built carriers there. Plus italy goes after egypt or ME and Blocks your fleet.

The advantage is you protect your high value assets and egypt. Plus you gain momentum for UK2 since there are more reinforcements coming from Pac fleet.

Backside is itaky has a certain initiative.

@Cornwallis I moved my UK fleet next to Gibraltar in my current low-luck game and then went over to the Eastern Med on UK2. It is supported by air bases or else it would have been sunk. That also deters an early Egypt attack as you have some more planes and troops in the theater. So far the plan has been working.

Of course this is for a game with an Allied bid. In a no-bid game, the moves would have been quite risky. I would do Taranto against an inferior opponent where I don’t want to gamble, and exploit a conservative superior player by saving the Med fleet. Plans have to depend on relative strengths of the players.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris what was the bid? What did UK buy on round 1? Yes indeed no move or idea is 100% safe and perfect if not the game OOB would not be axis favored

@Cornwallis I had a Scotland fighter, a sub in SZ110, a sub in the Med, and a Sudan art. The rest of the 50 PU spend was to hold Yunnan on J1.

Virtually all OOB games have a Scottish fighter and a med sub so not unreasonable if you design strategies around this purchase.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris makes sense then why you do the gibastion. The video i made is OOB bc we play tabletop but on LL so the bid is not yet on the table.

@Cornwallis for a no-bid game against a good opponent with a battle calculator, you have to be aggressive for the Allies to win. I think saving the Med fleet by moving to Gibraltar is a risky but superior move instead of Taranto. A small mistake or bad dice roll with sink the plan.

I don’t see the advantage of the Red Sea retreat but perhaps you can post a game where you played it out more fully.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris the retreat is only for one turn. By stacking and blocking Alexandria you can comeback UK2 and even make an airbase there.
It´s a withdrawal UK1 to attack on UK2.