Balancing Cruiser (CL) and Battleship (BB) units with other A&A units

@Pitt79 please elaborate the usa russia scenario thanx

We do our technology country specific as such:

Germany
2 – The jet age begins and the ME-262 takes to the skies. Fighters defend at a 5 during ground attacks and scrambles, and defend at 4 during strategic and tactical bombing.
3 – King Tiger tank is developed and rolls off the assembly line. Armor now attacks on a 4.
4 – Type IX U-boat is unleashed upon the Atlantic. Submarines attack at 3 and defend at 2.
5 – Nebelwerfer rocket packs delivered to the front. All artillery can support 2 infantry or mechanized infantry.
6 – Waffen SS divisions now attached to regular army divisions. “4+1” For every 5 infantry in a combat or defense. One attacks and defends at +1. With an attached artillery the attack value is increased to 3.
7 – V-2 Rocket is developed. Airbases may now conduct one industrial or naval/air base attack on a zone within 4 spaces. One die of damage is rolled per German controlled operational air base.
8 – Long range aircraft. All aircraft flight range is increased by 1 movement.
9 – Advanced radar. AA guns hit at 2 during strategic and tactical bombing raids.
10 – Improved mechanized infantry. All mechanized infantry attacks at a 2. Artillery do not boost.
11 - Improved aviation engineering and manufacturing. Fighters now cost 8 IPC.

12 – Atomic weapons. A new age of terror begins as the Nazis harness the power of the atom.
Atomic bombs cost 24 IPC to build. Only two may be built per turn. May not be built on same turn as breakthrough turn.
Move as infantry by land or sea. If loaded on a strategic bomber, it can move the current range of the bomber
Due to a lack of trained technicians and engineers, a nation may possess no more than 2 weapons at one time.
Due to the size and nature of the airburst associated with the nuclear warhead, no attack roll is required to score a successful hit.
No air defense, such as fighter interception, is allowed due to the altitude of the strike plane and surprise of the attack. Only upgraded fighters may intercept. Long range aircraft or jet power technology must have been researched to perform interception.
An atomic weapon is treated as an AAA gun if the territory in which it is stored is attacked. 
No AAA guns are to be fired due to the altitude of the strike plane and surprise of the attack only normal AA gun with factory can fire. Airbase and naval base do not fire AA.
Any industrial complex is attacked with 4 dice disabled to maximum value of 20 for major and 2 dice disabled to maximum value of 6 for minor complexes.
Any airbases or naval bases are attacked by one dice of value.
One dice is rolled and that number of units of defenders choice eliminated. AAA guns may be chosen.

If used on a naval assault:
The nuclear strike cannot be combined with surface vessels.
Due to the altitude of the strike plane and surprise of the strike, aircraft on carriers and loaded troops on transports are considered to be cargo and provide no defense. The 5 hits are assessed and the attacking bomber returns to base. No 2nd attack is permitted.
Transports chosen last.

USSR is not permitted to develop weapons until they are in a state of war.
1 – IL-2 Sturmovik rolls off the line. All fighters now attack at 4 when paired with a matching armor.
2 – T-36 rolls off the line. Tanks now attack at 4.
3 – Katyusha rocket packs to the front. Artillery can support 2 infantry.
4 – Russian home guard. “4+1”, for every 5 infantry on defense one defends at 3.
5 – 6 Roll again

Japan
1 – Kaiten submarine is unleashed upon the Pacific. Submarines attack 3 / defend 2.
2 – Improved ship building. Battleships cost 17 and carriers cost 13.
3 – Ship radar. Battleships now hit and defend at 5.
4 – Improved capital ship design. Battleships and carriers now require 3 hits to destroy.
5 – Long range aircraft. All aircraft flight range is increased by 1 movement.
6 – Improved aviation engineering and manufacturing. All air units cost reduced by 2 IPC.

USA is not permitted to develop weapons until they are in a state of war.
2 – B-29 is developed by Boeing. Roll 2 dice for each strategic bomber in a combat or strategic raid. Range is increased to 8.
3 – Improved factories and manufacturing methods. Cost of all units except infantry, reduced by 1 IPC.
4 – Ship radar. Battleships now hit and defend at 5.
5 – Improved capital ship design. Battleships and carriers now require 3 hits to destroy.
6 – Improved ship building. Battleships cost 17 and carriers cost 13.
7 – P-51 Mustang rolls off line. Fighters now have a range of 6
8 – Rocket barges developed. Destroyers may now conduct shore bombardment at a 2.
9 – Improved mechanized infantry. All mechanized infantry attacks at a 2. Artillery do not boost.
10 – Long range aircraft. All aircraft flight range is increased by 1 movement. P-51 is not increased.
11 – Jet power developed. Fighters defend at 5 during defense and scramble and 4 during strategic and tactical bombing raids.
12 – Atomic weapons. See German section.

United Kingdom
1 – Sterling bombers developed. Roll 2 dice for each strategic bomber in a combat or strategic raid.
2 – Ship radar. Battleships now hit and defend at 5.
3 – Improved capital ship design. Battleships and carriers now require 3 hits to destroy.
4 – SAS Commandos. On first round only, of an amphibious assault infantry hit on a 2. Matching artillery boost to a 3.
5 – Anti-aircraft radar improvements. AA guns hit on 2 during strategic and tactical bombing.
6 – Spitfire III rolls off the line. Fighters now defend at 5 during defense and scrambles and 2 during strategic and tactical bombing raids.

Italy
1 – Long range aircraft. All aircraft flight range is increased by 1 movement.
2 - Improved aviation engineering and manufacturing. All air units reduced cost by 2 IPC.
3 – Improved mechanized infantry. All mechanized infantry attacks at a 2. Artillery do not boost.
4 – Mobile artillery. Artillery may now move 2.
5 – Frogmen commandos. On the first round of combat only, 2 extra dice are rolled prior to a naval attack. A roll of 2 or less is a hit. Hits are assessed prior to the main attack.
6 – Roll again.

Australia – due to lack of industry and supplies are limited to naval improvements only. ANZAC is not permitted to develop weapons until they are in a state of war
1 – Improved ship building.
Cost table
Battleship 17
Aircraft Carrier 13
Cruiser 9
Destroyer 7
Transport 6
Submarine 5
2 – Ship radar. Battleships now hit and defend at 5.
3 – Improved capital ship design. Battleships and carriers now require 3 hits to destroy.
4 – Long range aircraft. All aircraft flight range is increased by 1 movement.
5 – Improved aviation engineering and manufacturing. All air units cost reduced by 2 IPC.
6 – Royal Marines. Infantry may be transported by Anzac cruisers and battleships. 1 per ship. Ships can still bombard in amphibious landings and attack prior to a landing.

@WILD:

@Imperious:

Well if you allow BB and CV to take 2 turns to build and pay half each turn, it makes alot of sense to buy cruisers. The 3 move is great, but not sure to give it a 4 MOVE if from a naval port.

I’m also experimenting with many more convoy zones (UK convoy routes) mostly in the Atlantic, around Africa, and the Med. I’m hoping that giving the cruiser 3 moves (4 from nb) allows the axis to use it as a convoy raider at times because it can out run (or keep pace) with the allies ships. Adding more convoy zones is also making German subs more viable as commerce raiders.

To Baron Munchhausen, yea escort or light carrier would probably be a better terms then support carrier. I’ve been using A0, D1, M2-3, C12-carries 1 plane.  You bring up a good point about many of these light carriers were built on cruiser hulls though. Being this is a new ship for me at a relatively low cost (12 IPCs) I think I will keep it with the standard move of 2-3 for now (to warrant the cruiser at 12 IPC as the only fast ship), but will probably take a 3-4 move light carrier for a spin at some point.

PS: I’m really liking the 2 turn capital ship builds, and it is making ship building pretty interesting.

I’m also thinking about limiting 2 turn capital ship builds to major ICs (exception of USA who’s minors will be majors at some point). You can drop a capital ship at one of your minor ICs, but it takes an extra turn for delivery (3 turns to build). This is basically to stop the US or Japan from building capital ships in remote places. I would allow the UK Pac, Anz, Canada etc to build capital ships at their minor ICs, but theoretically they pay for the ship, it is built in England and delivered to the minor IC over 3 turns (same concept for the other powers building at their minor ICs). I realize that you could make a point that any ship built at a minor IC should be +1 turn because most ship yards would be at in the home territory where the major IC is (looking at that too lol).

Adding CVL to Cruiser, both at M3-4, makes a way to depict the historical US Fast Task Force fleet in PTO.
I made a house rule for Convoy Raid. It works well with 1942.2 and AA50.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=35687.msg1467061#msg1467061

I am currently working on a mod in TripleA that will do this. Germany owns Germany, Italy, Poland, and Libya. Britian owns, in addition to its regular territories: France, Northwestern Europe, Norway, Morocco, and Algeria. Russia owns Finland. Japan only owns Japan, Manchuria, Kangitsu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Caroline Islands, and Formosa. Britian owns all Japanese territories that weren’t mentioned here, except for Wake Island, Kwantung, and the Phillipines, which are owned by America.

On round 1, Russia and America are out. That means that they will get no money, they can’t move units, and they can’t be attacked, with the exception of China. Americans in China get to move, attack, and be attacked normally. Also, Japan gets to attack the Americans on Wake Island, the Phillipines, and (on J3 or J4) the navy off of Pearl Harbor (which will have at least 2 battleships). On Round 3, Russia gets to join. However, Germany gets to attack Russia in G2. I’m not sure whether to let America join in round 3 or 4. It depends on how much firepower Britain gets to wield in the Pacific and India initially, and how much they can maintain pressure on Japan.

Britain starts out with no cash to spend on B1 simply because they would have a mountain of cash from all the territories. Plus, the Axis need to have a chance to beat Britain back in the first few rounds. Germany and Japan will start out with 50 bucks (to represent their massive military buildup relative to the Allies.

Unit count in all Axis territories will basically double to give them much needed initial firepower. Germany’s navy will be beefed up, mainly in SZ5. There will be some extra navy in the Med just to make sure that they have a shot in Africa. To balance that, the subs off the coast of America will be removed, as well as the British navy off America as well (so Britain can’t storm Africa).

I already have some idea for the initial situation in Japan. They will start out with enough land units, navy, and transports to either gobble up Pacific islands or storm China, but not both. Plus, there is the Indian and Australian navies to deal with, not to mention the threat at Pearl Harbor.

My goal is to be semi-historically accurate, because some accuracy has to be sacrificed in order to make the game playable and fun, and also because the map wasn’t designed for historic realism.

One thing I’d like to do is to give Japan incentive to attack Pearl Harbor the turn that America begins to play, but I don’t know of a way to give Japan good incentive to. I think I might give Japan a reward for destroying the battleships in Pearl by giving them some money or units if they do.

I would appreciate and welcome suggestions for pretty much anything in here. I want to make this work and have it at least as balanced if not more balanced than 1942.2.

@bugoo:

As far as tech goes I would propose a point system.  Assign a point value to each tech.  Purchase researchers as normal.  Roll as normal for research, but add up the total rolls and apply them toward the selected tech.  You could assign different researches to different techs, but cannot change the tech they work on once purchased.  Once point value is reached, tech is gained said researchers are lost.  For example.

As US I want heavy bombers eventually, they are worth 30 research, so on turn 1 I purchase one heavy bomber researcher.  I roll and get a 3.  Now I need 27 more research to get heavy bombers.  On turn 2 I decide I want super subs, and since that tech isn’t as powerful I only need 15 research to get them.  I purchase 2 researchers, both for the subs as I want to sink japan’s navy now.  I roll a 2 for my heavy bomber researcher, leaving 25 left, and then roll a 4 and a 5 for my subs, leaving 6 left and with any luck on turn 3 i’ll get my super subs.

This will allow you to slowly work at a tech, rush for it, and choose to go for the good but expensive techs, or take an easier, faster, tech, or all of the above.  Now all nations may buy a heavy bomber researcher turn 1, but hey there is nothing wrong with that!

Hello.  I am digging up this as the tech lovers/haters discussions have started to heat up.

I re-read your thoughts and am wondering if you ever did anything more with this idea of a tech pointing system.  Did you ever come up with point targets for each tech?

The neat thing about this is that it can be easily tweaked with out re-writing the whole process.

Or you could go one step further and adjust the targets by country too.  For example, make super subs very low (read affordable) for Russian super subs or something like that, or even harder for the wealthy countries (like extra points for USA for Long Range)

I want to make a short game where germany has all the techs and the allies have to kill them both before time runs out… or the allies lose.

If you love A&A Revised but feel it falls a bit short of it’s potential, try http://boards.avalonhill.com/showthread.php?t=15339  I would be happy to discuss the rules or even play a game with interested players…

Commanders (based on d12 system)
Each major power can have one or more military commanders that affect the outcome of battles. Each turn one commander unit is placed in a territory you wish to attack and can affect a +1 modifier on attack or defense for the sum of combat units equal to its leadership value for the duration of combat rounds. Each nation begins with commanders as follows:

Germany:
Hitler          8
Manstein    9
Runstedt    8
Rommel    10
Guderian    6

Italy:
Kesselring    7
Badoglio      4

Finland
Mannerheim    6

U.S.S.R:
Stalin              7
Zhukov          8
Timoshenko  7

United Kingdom:
Montgomery      7
Alexander          5

Japan:
Tojo                  7
Yamamoto*    10
Nagumo*          8
Yamashita        7

U.S.A.
Patton              9
Eisenhower    8
Nimitz*          7
Macarthur      7

Note: The engaged commander remains in the territory till the end of the turn. If enemy forces choose to counterattack and capture the territory  then that commander is considered killed in battle and cannot be replaced. All Leaders can only affect land battles except the leaders with * which can effect battles on the sea.