What would happen if all IC's had unlimited production?

@Tall:

––Unlimited Production from any factory would get rid of the “challenge” of producing a war-winning strategy.

I don’t see this at all - being able to put large production (10 unit) factory/supply centers on any territory worth at least 1 IPC actually would increase the challenge - at the start of each game you would have no idea where your opponent will build a new strong point. As it is now the same strong points appear at the same places every game, due to the limitations put on the players by the “improved” rules. These rules result in pretty much the same strategies every time, because the factories are in the same economic areas every time.

@Tall:

The decisions that he’s forced to take are what makes up the “challenge” of this great game.

That is just the problem for me. Being forced to make decisions because of game constricting rules. As a player whose goal is to have fun, do I want to have MORE freedom as a commander to do what I want or LESS?

In our current running game as the British I’ve built a factory/supply center in Persia which produces up to 10 units per turn. From this territory I can reinforce the Russians if I want. I can also put ships into the Persian Gulf. I can defend both Cairo and Calcutta. This presents a new and challenging threat to the Axis - they will have to come up with something new somewhere to counter that. It’s DIFFERENT than last game - a new challenge is created - the situation just changed. Overly restrictive placement rules do not offer more opportunity for strategic thought - they actually trap all creative thought and confine it to certain pre-determined areas that are fought for over and over again.

My game is an Ann edition/AA1942 hybrid. I only play G40 at a friends place or online. There are many versions of the game and you can’t very well make sweeping statements for all of them, I realize. Removing some of the IC restrictions has worked for us.

@Uncrustable:

These rules result in pretty much the same strategies every time, because the factories are in the same economic areas every time.

This statement is simply not true with regards to G40

Fair enough - haven’t played G40 enough to judge it.

@knp7765:

Also, you have to remember that the game is trying in some part to be realistic in as much as what was available back in 1940. If you could simply plop down unlimited production ICs anywhere you wanted, while it might be a little fun simply overwhelming your enemy, it wouldn’t be very inventive. I’ve come up with something I call the Mid-Level IC.

Addressing some of your statements here:

Realism: Should this word and “Axis and Allies”  ever be used together? I mean, there is no fog of war in the game. There is no supply system. There are no weather effects. We have battleships and A/C carriers that are scaled to be over 1000 miles long compared to the map. Realism was not a big priority for Larry Harris when creating this game, I would say. More accurately, he seemed to want to make a fun game with a WWII flavor that appealed to the casual player.

Unlimited Production: Since titling this thread and doing some game testing I have settled on the 15 IPC, 10 unit limit,  damagable (up to 20 chips) IC for all terrirories worth at least 1 IPC. This is more reasonable and allows limits on how much damage can be done and how many units can be placed. Plus you have the option of not fixing the damaged IC, that you didn’t have in classic. Now let’s say I could “plop down” these wherever there was a 1 IPC territory. Why would that overwhelm my enemy, as he would see me plop it down, and then on his turn he could plop his own down nearby. Or he could attack the territory and take over the IC before it could produce. Or he could bomb it down to where it would have to be fixed in order to produce. It would be inventive to find a good new spot for an IC and also inventive to counter that move, IMO.

Mid-level IC: this is a nice idea but doesn’t it spring from the desire to put more stuff out where it is needed? Let’s say you have an IC that can only produce 3 units per turn. I say this does not produce more realism- it only produces more of a differnt kind of unrealism. For example, say I have a minor IC in Cairo. I can only put 3 things out there every turn. I also see I’m i danger of being attacked there. Because I can only put out three things, I won’t buy three infantry. They only defend at 2. I’m going to put three expensive fighters out there that defend at 4. Even though realism says fighters do not hold ground at all - infantry do. Within a few rounds I’ve got six to 9 fighters in Egypt, no infantry. And I’m thinking - “Wow - this is much more realistic” huh?

The way to get around the thinking that “this is unrealistic” is to think of your ICs like Larry Harris originally did - they were IC/supply centers. Not necessarily making the units on site, but being a gateway for them to be placed. This is how historically the Allies were able to put over 100,000 men in Morocco (gasp - it’s only worth 1 IPC) without the Axis even knowing it was coming. Because in reality transports were not 750 miles long and could not be seen from space like they are in this game. Many were not seen and could bring a lot of firepower where needed - to me this is what the IC/supply center represents.

In our current game I am playing the British and my German opponent has just taken Gibraltar. This means the Atlantic is open to him. Brazil is empty. If we don’t do something, we know it is possible he could break out into the Atlantic with his transport and DD, land in Brazil, and put an IC in there that would seriously threaten the USA. (It’s only a serious threat if he can put a significant amount of German units out, though.) All of the sudden you have a potential game changer and the Allies have got to respond in a different part of the world. Now to me that’s entertainment!

And how is game balance threatened when both sides can do the same thing? It may upset game tradition, but I don’t see how it hurts game balance. The Brits put a large capacity IC in South africa. Hmmm…the Germans put a large capacity IC in North Africa. Now you’re both fighting somewhere else. Where’s the imbalance?